Revisiting Ellen White on Masturbation


(Elmer Cupino) #62

Masturbation is not sinful.


(Tim Teichman) #63

How are the two connected? I don’t see it.

In any case you will notice that cautions about adultery in the bible are aimed at men who are ‘stealing’ other men’s property, their wives. They’re essentially property laws. You see very little council aimed at women’s behavior, since they were property. While it was not OK to lust after your neighbor’s wife, his property, your own slave girls weren’t off limits. And in the Abraham story the product of such an affair, the child, was blessed by God.

No.

So now you’re the expert? I’d rather look to research like Masters & Johnson’s results:

https://www.mentalhelp.net/blogs/what-we-learned-about-sex-the-masters-and-johnson-research-team/

When research tell us how human sexuality works, how the brain actually functions when it comes to sex, then we actually have something useful to work with, as opposed to Victorian nonsense.


(Elmer Cupino) #64

In a study among married couples only 16% of men and 13% of women identify porn as a factor in masturbation. Other reasons include release of tension, higher libidinal drives, long distance travels and when the spouse says no or is sick.


(Johnny Carson) #65

Christ said nothing whatsoever about Masturbation… or earwax for that matter.

A person is free to insinuate any thoughts they wish into the minds of other men and women (yes, women) who masturbate but all they will succeed in doing is projecting onto someone else their own thoughts when they, themselves, masturbate.

A few years ago I became acquainted with a man while participating in a group therapy situation who revealed to the group that he was only able to climax when thinking about or viewing lace-up, leather, work boots. Not everyone on the planet thinks about the same things that you do, @GregCox


(Mark Cady, MD) #66

Interesting, the degree of attention ascribed here. Is it for the cause of “prophesy in the balance”, or the defense of “nature’s pleasure-indictment? Hard to know, I am sure. In any case, I am a creature of connection. The conditions of which are informed most clearly by what I love most and what I do best. How are my connections in life informed by the manner in which I think (sinful alienation or righteous preoccupation) and the actions which my thinking divine and emulate (inward isolation or outreach and loving inclination)?

I din’t see that actions arising from singular sexual proclivities are what are at stake here. As well, I find little interest in defining prophesy with a single parting glance at a what is decidedly not an illuminating moment in the conventions of grace, conviction, redemption, salvation nor dissemination of the gospel.

Likely God (and EGW) had higher function operations in mind (than auto eroticism). Higher operations akin to study, discernnent, prayer and carrying the message to a world awash in self absorption. I think of Ananias, Sapphirah, Jonah, Elisha, Samuel, Samson, Cain, Esau, Judas, David, Goliath, Judas, Eve and Paul. Did any of these allow the Spirit entreé and set aside self interest and self-aggrandizing action long enough to take their eyes off their idol (self: “loved” most, most often and “cared for” the best)?

Yes, some did. While others did not. Did God use each one for His purpose? Seems He did. Each had their moments to masturbate the idols they chose with ultimate love, worship and service. And in the end, who won, who didn’t?

Masturbation is a reality and metaphor for each of us on this journey to the kingdom. How does it serve us, how does it not? Who and what do we love most? How and what do we do best? Examine our “love” objects and see so clearly the condition of our hearts.


(George Tichy) #67

It interesting seeing all those men talking about masturbation, and quoting EGW on it.
Do they talk as much on the issue because,

  1. They have absolutely no experience on the issue? Or,
  2. They absolutely have experience on the issue?

I wonder which one it is for those “Whiteists”…


(Mark Cady, MD) #68

Seems to me that “experience” is no respecter of persons (in either side of this divide or in the middle).


(George Tichy) #69

Your statement is worth to be expanded, to make sure everyone understands it in full.


(Mark Cady, MD) #70

In the human discovery of the pursuit of pleasure and the avoidance of pain, man (and woman) fell upon their very own anatomical, emotional and physiological pleasure centers. Small wonder.

How is this known to be so? As “true as the needle is to the pole”, all of humanity “finds oneself” in times of yearning desire. Desire for for the commencement of pleasure of the containment of pain. Some, so, in solitary pursuit, others, so, in a more guided endeavor.

Are double-blind studies required to evoke and affirm this reality? I say not. Doubly blinded infants and adults alike are otherwise wholly equipped to arrive at similarly satisfying conclusions.

Side with whomever you wish. EGW or otherwise. It matters not. Moreover, let’s check the reality of the idols you and I worship. For “where my treasure is (cherished, adored and nurtured), there shall my heart be also”.


(George Tichy) #71

Great piece of literature!!!


(Mark Cady, MD) #72

Dare I say I am inspired?


#73

Your comment resonates with me, so if you want to claim inspiration, I support that. Your thoughts deserve an article.


(Johnny Carson) #74

My vote is for number 2.

During my two years participating in group therapy this topic came up several times as a contentious issue between various participants, mostly the newer guys in the group as they rotated in to fill spots vacated by “graduates” from the sessions. It was interesting to watch the guys who were contentiously vocal in their judgment of the practice mellow out over the months to the point where they would decide that another’s practice of the “art” was none of their business, and that yes, they practiced… very regularly.


(Johnny Carson) #75

I will second your nomination, Elizabeth. @mdcadymd


(Kim Green) #76

"Masturbation is a reality and metaphor for each of us on this journey to the kingdom. How does it serve us, how does it not? Who and what do we love most? How and what do we do best? Examine our “love” objects and see so clearly the condition of our hearts."

Thank-you for your thoughts and I believe that you are right that it is our “love” objects that clearly define the condition of our hearts. We should know how much they mean by what we are willing to give up for them (price) as well.


(George Tichy) #77

Absolutely. Actually, I need to welcome you to the club of the prophets… :wink:


(Mark Cady, MD) #78

Ah yes, the club where each and all may at once belong. We need simply “speak for Him”


(George Tichy) #79

A club where males and females are equally welcome. The founder was a woman!!!.. :wink:


(Greg Cox) #80

you avoided the crux altogether. I’ll report it; “Masturbation is the physical expression of an interior thought” …and interior thoughts are exactly where sin originates. No person masturbates without a carnal thought. Christ specifically spoke of carnal thoughts through this example; “if you even look at a woman lustfully you have already committed adultery”. That’s quite clear. Rationalizing sin only accomplishes the establishment of sin.


(Johnny Carson) #81

I’ve got the answer for you, Greg. It’s a simple concept. Quit thinking and you’ll be sin free.

Again, it’s an absurdity to illustrate an absurdity, but then there’s really no cogent argument that can be said in answer to absurdity.