“Room for Everyone”: Swedish Union Issues Statement about LGBT+ Individuals

It’s those darn headaches. One cup of coffee cures it for me!

I’m addicted to life - Can’t get enough of it!:grin:

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Yep. Either God is in charge of how we are made or he isn’t. And to say that sin has gummed up the process is a copout. We are what we are when we are born, and God loves us just the way we are, including whatever gender or sexual attraction characteristics we have. Given that, I don’t see why God would want us to mistreat his created children, forcing them into a life of loneliness and lack of intimate and sexual fulfillment. If God could call a man (David) who had numerous wives and concubines the “apple of his eye,” surely he loves and encourages gays and the marriage commitments they make to one another.

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Thanks, George. It is easy to get discouraged, but I have decided to accept the possibility that there will be little or no positive change. I can live with that, but I cannot stand by and be quiet as the church hurts such individuals. I will keep being the bur in the saddle of our comfortably discriminatory leadership. They will at least have no excuse for not hearing about the damage they are doing to those whom God loves.

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Why yes, yes I do. And I also reject all of the punishments for the various sins enumerated in the bible, as do almost all thinking Christians. As do you I suspect.

It is disingenuous to latch on to one or more items listed as sins in the bible, claiming the bible as your authority, and then at the same time dismiss the bible when it comes to the punishments for those same sins.

It’s like Adventists who cling to the 6 days of creation as literal - but then make excuses for why they don’t accept the actual details of the account as literal.

Light before there was a sun? Well, no.
The sun was created when the earth was? Well, probably not really.
The sun and the moon and the stars are fixed upon the firmament (which does not exist)? Well, probably not. Since they are not.
But six days? Definitely!

It makes no sense.

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Don’t forget that King David did Priestly only activities. In addition he murdered
a “best friend” and raped his “best friend’s” wife and had 2 children with her,
even though he also had several other “wives”.
STILL, God says, “David is a man after My own heart.”
Think of all the people who died because David decided to take a census.

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It would seem that God does not expect us to be perfect - to be Godlike. Seems He’s OK calling people who act like people ‘good’.

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OK, David. I’ll bite. You’ve identified Constantine. Can you identify the “ten kings in Revelation” that are “the followers of Constantine.” ?

The story of the Genesis creation is the story of man’s attempt to begin an object relationship with God. Any other interpretation would require mental calisthenics and gymnastics.

I fully agree with you Tim.

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Adventists struggle with metaphorical language.

Revelation is full of it and Adventists hold all kinds of seminars to explain it.

But in the first book, they insist on literalism.

Ironic.

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Light –
Perhaps on the 1st day God performed CHEMICAL REACTIONS.
Some chemical reactions produce Light and Heat.
Has anyone given thought to THAT?
It doesn’t say the WHOLE EARTH was lit. Could have been just a small
corner of the round earth.
Another problem we are stuck with, with the collective people who contributed
to writing the Bible down on “paper”. Their knowledge of the Globe of the earth
was limited to just a small portion of land mass, and a big body of water to play
in.
Most of the animals of the earth they had no knowledge about. So much they
didn’t know. So we are left with their descriptions as they attempted to made
sense of the world around them— The SEEN, and the UNSEEN.

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Well said, Bryan. Thank you for your voice and influence! I also have decided that there is little possibility of positive change, yet I cannot remain silent.

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I thought I was quite clear already. The Levitical verses forbid same-sex sexual relations outside of marriage, the same as for any sexual relations outside of marriage. They simply do not apply to a situation involving same-sex marriage, because such did not exist at that time. Same for Rom. 1, except that, as I said before, that is not Paul’s point in even mentioning it.

Is it that threatening to you that God may want us to use our reasoning abilities to confront a new social situation that was never clearly addressed in the Bible? And even if it were more clearly addressed, does it bother you that much to maybe consider that God was dealing with a vastly different culture in OT times than He is dealing with today? Some rules do change with time.

As I said before, slavery is a prime example of just this sort of change. Once it was a Biblical injunction that a slave MUST NOT disobey his master, now I think any one of us with readily encourage a slave to disobey his master. I dare say most of us would do all we could to free someone trapped in slavery. Times do change, and sometimes we develop more moral clarity than in the past. Do you think that God still expects slaves to obey their masters?

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Everybody knows the earth is flat. It has to be, because that is what the bible says. Sheesh.

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We can read about the “flat, circular earth”, can read about the earth being
the center of our universe with sun and moon encircling our earth before
the telescope.
But it is NOT EASY to read the Bible post telescope with THAT understanding.
Our present knowledge ALWAYS gets in the way.
To them “the circle of the earth” was like living on a CD/DVD disc. Not a round
globe–ball.
That is why Modern Theology has so much difficulty with Biblical Theology. We
KNOW too much, and read TOO MUCH of our Modern Theology into Scripture.

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George –
We in the 19th, 20th, 21st Centuries do NOT have the same understanding
about things they did at Mount Sinai.
We know so much more about physiology and anatomy of males and females.
Even more than was known in Ellen White’s days [1827-1915]
At Sinai it was thought that the men had the “seeds” to make humans and the
woman just “incubated” them.
God commanded the Israelites to MULTIPLY. The more we make boys and girls
the more people will make up the Israelite Tribe. The more people, the stronger
the Tribe to resist takeover by other Tribes in Palestine.
SO to WASTE all that Human-making Seed was seen as “wasteful” and going
against God’s commands. Sex to them was Very Serious Business.
So to Encourage not being ‘wasteful’ they made all these religious laws against
it, even to the point of death penalty.
On the other hand there were sexually transmitted diseases back then also. So
it was a preventative for social diseases.
But I believe the Main issue was “wastefulness”.

Perhaps the Need for a large tribe contributed to God not saying anything to Jacob
for having babies by 4 women. It took ALL 4 women to produce 12 boys and 1 girl.
Or to others who had multiple women by whom they had kids.
[Example: Samuel’s Dad]
Men having sons was important back in those days. Remember the laws Moses
came up with in land distribution. One man ONLY had girls. Those women came to
Moses and complained. God said, “They are correct.” Then said to Moses, to treat
them like “boys” in land distribution."

Probably shouldn’t mention this on Spectrum, but since on the subject. There is
increasing literature saying that older guys NEED to have frequent orgasms for
prostate health. Dr. Shyrock was very adamant about telling young men to NOT
do that. Maybe you didn’t have his books – on becoming a man, on becoming a
woman – in Brazil. Many SDA kids read his books.

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Perhaps @niteguy2 the term centre of the universe is figurative rather than physical. It is not hard to imagine if we take the view that Heaven and other worlds are watching what is happening here. Doesn’t that imply that earth is infact the centre of the universe in focus, if not physical.

But what if they are not? Is this scriptural? Perhaps we are NOT the object of universal curiosity by other “worlds” who are judging God’s fairness by what is happening on earth.

Perhaps God is busy being creative on other dimensions and complexities with energies in other vast parts of the universe with non-intersecting time dimensions.

Is Jesus coming to this orb unique in the universe?
Are we the only “humans” in the universe?
The only non-angelic beings?

We don’t know, do we? Although we are intrigued and looking for radio signals and signs as earth’s inhabitants. We are exploring our nearby space and make imaginative movies about treks to spaces eons and eons away.

We have no idea where we are in the universe and who else is “out there.”

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The European nations.

Buying strong wine doesn’t necessarily mean drinking strong wine. Strong wine was used also in the sanctuary for drink offerings. For example, we read in Exodus 29:40:

“And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of a hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering.”

And in Numbers 28:7, we read:

“And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.”

You can read also:

  • Leviticus 23:13
  • Numbers 15:5
  • Numbers 15:7
  • Numbers 28:7
  • Numbers 28:14
    etc

In fact, when you read the Bible, you can see that while God tell the Israelite to refrain from drinking wine He asked them to use it for drink offering.

I’m sorry, but I am confused. I thought that offerings in the temple were supposed to represent the best of what the person had to offer. God does not want inferior offerings. Doesn’t that make strong wine then the best, most desired kind of wine? The kind that people preferred to drink? And if that is the case, why would no one be drinking it? I can see why consecrated individuals like Samson would abstain, but what of everyone else?

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