“Room for Everyone”: Swedish Union Issues Statement about LGBT+ Individuals


(Bryan Ness) #41

I would hope that we all attend church with the hope of being cleansed from our sins. My LGBTQ+ friends are not more or less in need of God’s grace than I am. Not sure what you mean by practicing, but yes, they should practice God’s love for others the same as we all should, including committing themselves to a loving, monogamous relationship with their spouse, the same as God prompts each of to such a commitment. I believe it has been our unwillingness to accept God’s blessing of same-sex marriage that has helped drive some of the problems gays have with promiscuity (keeping in mind that heterosexuals have almost as much of a problem with promiscuity). If same-sex marriage is disallowed, what is the motivation, within a moral community like the church, to resist promiscuous sexual relationships?

To give credit where it is due, though, there have been many same-sex coupes, even before marriage for them was legal, that remained monogamous and faithful to their partner.


(Tim Teichman) #42

Is that really a Christian teaching? I thought we were covered in grace when we accept Jesus as Savior - all that is needed.

I didn’t know we needed cleansing as well, or that cleansing is somehow achieved by church attendance.


(Bryan Ness) #43

Now Tim, I was using the term loosely, and consider it to mean just what you are saying. Church attendance brings no merit, so I did not mean to imply it is the key to forgiveness. I was merely suggesting that those who attend are probably also putting themselves under God’s grace. Maybe I need to be more careful in my wording, since I certainly see last generation theology as heresy.


(Tim Teichman) #44

Thank you, that’s what I think as well.


(Steve Mga) #45

Elmer –
A wonderful book on Spirituality and the Twelve Steps is one by
Richard Rohr. “Breathing Under Water”. I have given away 6 of
those to friends who attend AA.
A “Sponsor” who has several in his group said he really liked
what he read.
Actually, It is good just for Basic Introduction to God.


(Steve Mga) #46

Tim, CF –
Notice the next verses. It was to be a party! They were to invite the Levites
in the area to share the food and drink with them.


(Steve Mga) #47

The “MERIT” of church attendance is Hearing the Word in a group
setting. Discussing the Word in a group setting. Rejoicing in worship
to God in prayers and song in a group setting that cannot be done by
one’s self.
Most of the Worship-style in the SDA church is for Entertainment or
Instruction. Group participation is NOT ENCOURAGED.


(Butch Jones) #48

“Sexual orientation describes whom a person is attracted to and should not be confused with having an immoral desire”
This is wrong, the desire for sex with someone of the same sex (sexual orientation) IS a desire and is an immoral desire. This should have stated that the desire itself is not a sin, but to act on it mentally or physically is a sin.
The only way this is not a sin is if you put those thoughts out of your mind when they enter it.


(Elmer Cupino) #49

Every “30 seconds” throughout life? How about those mental thoughts that go along with wet dreams when asleep, are they exempted?

Welcome to the conversation.


(Cfowler) #50

Indeed! :grinning:
As were weddings. :wine_glass:


(George Tichy) #51

WOW Harrpa! You are a furious and very effective killer of spiritual arrogance and cheap judgmentalism. Job well done.


(George Tichy) #52

I hope nobody is attending church expecting cleansing of their sins. This would be extremely disappointing for the simple reason that neither the church nor attending church can ever cleanse anyone’s sins.

The Church is not as powerful as the Church wants us to believe it is! Far from that! Anyone who believes such falsehood needs to re-study the Christian faith, because they are failing the Christian experience.


(George Tichy) #53

Interesting method. How do you “put thoughts out of your mind when they enter it?” I am sure that, like all of us mortal humans, you must also have some impure thoughts once in a while, right? How do you get rid of them? Just curious, hoping you teach us how to do it efficiently. Thanks.


(reliquum) #54

To too many, one drink is too much, but too many is never enough…


(George Tichy) #55

Elmer,
The average male American has a sexual thought every 45 seconds… That’s a lot of work getting rid of them, uh?


(reliquum) #56

@GeorgeTichy On the prophetic clock. what does that register?


(David) #57

Some folks believe heaven has room enough for the devil himself!

Nope. He’s a day late and a dollar short.

…and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail_, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer._ 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

@timteichman


#58

@Butch_Jones,

It is your view that anyone with a gay orientation, born that way, is inherently sinning by “being” gay?

Is it your view that Adventists tolerate too much homosexuality?

Is it your view that gay Adventist is an oxymoron?

Are you aware of suicide statistics for children brought up in religious homes that reject their gay youngsters?

Is that suicide rate OK with you? How would you address it? Do you believe in conversion therapy?


(Tim Teichman) #59

They still are! Personally I see no harm in heightening the celebration with some wine. Or a wee drab of something similar.


(George Tichy) #60

Therapy is a serious and good term, that denotes help and growth.
Associating it with the term “conversion” is an adulteration of the term “therapy.” Whoever invented the so called “conversion therapy” was nothing but a charlatan.

“Conversion therapy” is associated with charlatanism and nothing else.