Sabbath Sermon: Ellen White (Rita Hoshino) Telling Stories - Part 1


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Sabbath Sermon: Ellen White (Rita Hoshino) Telling Stories - Part 1

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This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at http://spectrummagazine.org/node/6383

(Thomas J Zwemer) #2

A well told story, But purged of reality. The sanka version. imagine the Fourth Commandment shining brighter than all the rest. so it would be less an evil to kill a man than break the Sabbath, Yet no one has kept a perfect Sabbath. I spent a weekend at a Spa in the Catskills At Sundown it was sold to a stand by gentile and bought back at sundown the next day, but the Hebrew firm kept all the profits.,Now that is the context that Ellen White is followed, unless one is trying to brain wash a neighbor. Or a pew mate! “i was shown” bit has a host of meanings. Tom Z.


(Tim Teichman) #3

It is comical to put so much focus on the fourth commandment when we don’t even keep all of it, and we summarilly ignore many of the other commandments:

Exodus 34 is the final set of commandments, written by God himself:

34: 1. And the Lord said unto Moses, “Hew thee two tablets of stone like unto the first, and I will write upon these tablets the words that were in the first tablets which thou brokest.

34: 21 - 22. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest; in plowing time and in harvest thou shalt rest. And thou shalt [also] observe the Feast of Weeks of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year’s end.

OK, so have you been keeping the festival of weeks and the feast of ingathering? Yea, I didn’t think so.

Most of us totally ignore this next commandment (and some of the others):

34: 18. The Feast of Unleavened Bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month of Abib; for in the month of Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

Have you been keeping the Feast of Unleavened Bread during the month of Abib? Do you even know what it is? When it is? Didn’t think so.

----Soap box alert----
It seems to me that if you believe that you are bound by the covenant(s) given to Israel and their related commandments, that you should keep at least all of all three versions of the 10 commandments, and that is a fine thing to do.

But, if you cherry-pick through the commandments and focus only on the few that you feel apply to you, then you had better not criticize others for doing the same thing when they come up with a different sub-set they feel is applies to them.

I think that Jesus proclaimed that he formed a new covenant between God and the Gentiles, and one that did not include the everlasting covenant(s) with the Jews (see Genesis 17), and as such Gentiles are not bound by these prior covenants. So, I can cherry pick through all of the 650+ laws recorded in the Torah, including the three different versions of the 10 commandments (thought by Jews to be a summary of the 650) with impunity, picking just the ones I like.

But, if you believe the old covenants and commandments apply to you then you better get busy and start following them all or risk looking like a hypocrite when you, for example, tell others they are doing it wrong by going to church on Sun’s-day instead of Saturn’s-day.


(Elaine Nelson) #4

Riight on, Tim. In Leve. 23 God gives all the solemn festivals for sacred assembles:

Sabbath: You may work for six days but the seventh must be a day of complete rest.
Passover and the feast of unleavened bread.
The First Sheaf
The Fast of Weeks
The First Day of the Seventh Month
The Day of Atonement
The Feast of Tabernacles

NOTE: There are SEVEN sacred festivals that are commanded Israel.

How many Adventists are faithfully observing ALL of these? Where is there biblical command to CHOOSE which ones to observe and which ones are obsolete?

But especially for Adventists who claim to be Christians, where is there any command in the NT given Christians to obey ANY of these festivals which were given ONLY to the Israelites? Why such inconsistency?


(Tim Teichman) #5

I’ve studied a fair amount in this area and can’t find any pattern. I think it’s just random cherry picking.

We discard whatever seems unfamiliar (don’t boil a kid in his mother’s milk) as not for us and latch onto just part of scripture feels natural in our modern society (like do not murder or covet). In an abstract sense, this may be about the right thing to do in order to keep things relevant. But, when the church does it they should admit they’re doing it and not act as if they’re not doing it, as if their selection has some rational basis.


(Thomas J Zwemer) #6

why is it the Ellen White 360 gives us bloggers like Yo Yo, and Kevin? with all the passion and Love That Sister White exudes in her writing? she is noted for being four square for the Sabbath, and against any thing that would detract from fully enjoying that fellowship and rest, so the list grew from bicycles to flatulence, to suspenders over belts. Over 70 books worth. Some grain along with a lot of chaff. it is high time of a willowing. Tom Z.


(Elaine Nelson) #7

To realize that the church is still “led and guided” by those early decisions made by unschooled individuals in hermeneutics and Greek and Hebrew, using the KJV which at that time did not have the availability of later manuscripts, is to be tied to the past for only sentimental reasons. Now that we know how those doctrines were formed; relying far more on their own interpretation of the Scriptures is to ignore all the theological scholars in Christianity that have now taken advantage of additional information and relying far more on the Scriptures that were addressed to Christians, rather than laws and rules given to the Jews. Is the SdA church more Jewish than Christians is the real question.


(Tim Teichman) #8

This makes me chuckle because my dad, who long ago left the church over its teachings of original sin, calls the SDA church “Jews for Jesus”, with a sort of wink in his eye. I think there is some truth to it.


(Elaine Nelson) #9

And the church still repeats the mantra: “Sin is the transgression of the Law” which was essentially Judaism, while Jesus magnified and explained the Law which is largely ignored for the simplistic breaking of the Law–the Jewish Law that became obsolete with Jesus’ Resurrection.


(Steve Mga) #10

To ALL
I have a jewish friend that I took to all the festivals in the month of October at synagogue. I had a wonderful time with them all. There are some things that SDAs would probably not do. Dancing with the Torah. Actually we had to do 7 dances with the Torah. Lots of food. It was a time of reflection, much like Lent. There was 2 kinds of grape juice — tangy on the tongue, and sweet. Wonderful bread with chocolate morsels in it. Many desserts. The parading of the Torah down the aisle during services, touching or kissing it.
Jewish persons have a lot more fun in church than we do.


(George Tichy) #11

Steve,
Since we are even counseled not to ride bicycles, how could we possibly even think of “having fun in church?”


(Elaine Nelson) #12

The Orthodox Jews are the only ones that observe the WHOLE Law. Adventists only claim they do.


(Gary Hill) #13

Powerful argument and insights. thanks Tim


(David P R) #14

Hi Elaine,

So only “schooled” persons with proper education are able to understand the Bible? You really don’t believe that - do you? Jesus was unschooled, John the Baptist was also, yet Jesus called him the greatest of all the prophets.

You keep saying things like the IJ was invented and imagined by the mind of Ellen White and not in the Bible. Your reason? (or at least a main reason) is other theologians of other denominations don’t see it.

I’ve offered previously and will do so again, let’s me and yourself dialogue the IJ. Let’s go over Daniel 8 and I promise to never even bring Ellen White into the study.

Will you be like every other liberal Spectrum commenter and refuse to defend or convey your understanding? You should be able to lay to dust the doctrine of the IJ - shouldn’t you?

David R.


(David P R) #15

Elaine,
I guess you’ve forgotten 1 John 3:4? It is in the NT you know? Written by the apostle closest to Jesus and written much after the resurrection.

The Jewish law (as you say) is obsolete? So we don’t have to obey “Thou shalt not kill” anymore? Is it ok for your husband (if you’re married) to cheat on you now that “Thou shalt not commit adultery” is obsolete?

David R.


(David P R) #16

George,
Why would you want to have “fun” in church? Is that what church is for? Church is for worship to God, for reflection, for teaching, etc… - but “fun”?

Where are we counseled to not ride bicycles, George?

David R.


(George Tichy) #17

I am very sorry that you find it fun-less when you worship God, when you reflect on spiritual issues, or when you teach the Word. It must be boring to go to church, isn’t it?

My experience is much different, I like to go to church and feel well about it, not miserable. But I know that not everyone will have the same joyful sentiments as I do. That’s why some people actually have to find a way to criticize those who “have fun in church.”

Regarding EGW and bicycles, if you know nothing about it, it only reveals that you haven’t read much of the SOP yet. Do some research and find the facts. Even Googling will help. But be careful, … don’t have too much fun on Google…


(George Tichy) #18

If you or anyone else could really show the 1844/IJ from the Bible alone you would make the news!
But first you would have to print a Bible without the Book of Hebrews, otherwise you would be taking the risk of some people reading it, and all you construction would immediately go down the tubes.

Well, I am sure that Elaine @ageis7 is very interested in you Bible study, and she will certainly engage at this time. Insist with her. She needs your assistance, she has been an infidel for quite a while…

Hint: Another promising target for you is certainly Dr. Cupino @elmer_cupino. He is quite new here, but it appears that he has been an infidel for quite a while as well.

I wish you great success with those infidels…


(Elaine Nelson) #19

Jesus was certainly not unlearned. When he was only 12 Luke records that He took up Scripture and then interpreted it and they were "astounded and his ability and asked: where did he learn these things?

The pioneers did not read Greek or Hebrew, the Biblical languages, and they only consulted among themselves without checking with trained theologians who read the Bible languages and they arrived at the doctrines with a very small consensus. Compare that today when a slight change in the FBs must be discussed for months and then reviewed by the trained theologians before even being formal changes are made. How many reviewed the belief of the IJ that was seen by ONE MAN before being a new doctrine, unrecognized by no other Christians then or today?

You can save your time on a Bible study on the IJ. I am a PK of 90 years and literally grew up in the tent revival campaigns, sawdust floor and wooden chairs; sitting on the front row listening to my dad explain all the SdA beliefs, including that one. It has not been changed since then and I have heard (and learned in in SdA schools) all my life and have concluded it has no relation to a Christian’s life or salvation.

None of the apostles taught it (yet it was there in Scripture for them to read); Jesus did not teach it; and until Newton introduced his own idea, it was never part of Christianity. Adventists introduced it by claiming it was their “unique” contribution to religious belief, They are are correct on that statement.


(Elmer Cupino) #20

I can’t believe with all of @truthmaintained knowledge he has not heard of bicycles and EGW? Makes me wonder how on earth could that be? How about her counsel of not seeing physicians? Not to mention those shrinks!