Sabbath Sermon: Leonard Sweet, "Seeing With a Creative Eye"


(system) #1
Sat, 10/25/2014 | Los Angeles Adventist Forum

October Adventist Forum

Ronald E. Osborn, Ph.D., A 2014-2016 Mellon Postdoctoral Fell ow in the Peace and Justice Program at Wellesley College (Boston), and a 2 015 Fullbright Scholar to Burma/Myanmar, Formerly an Adjunct Faculty Membe r in the Dept. of International Relations at USC, and in the Honors Progra m at UCLA. Topic: "Death Before the Fall?: A Conversation with Ronald Osbor n."


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at http://spectrummagazine.org/node/6342

(le vieux) #2

I’m struggling to understand why Spectrum is promoting this professed Methodist, who advocates New Age concepts and is a promoter of the Emerging Church and Spiritual Formation. No matter how many things he may say that are correct, He teaches false doctrine and has no place in any SDA Church, nor should he be promoted by any entity that claims to be SDA.


(Yoyo7th) #3

Does his presentation scare you?


(le vieux) #4

No, it doesn’t scare me, but I question the implications of what he says. Based on his past history, I’m suspicious of his concept of “creativity.” We see where that creativity has taken many churches. The Holy Spirit gives clear vision, not “cross-eyed” vision. And I question his point about “letting go” and letting “what’s there be there.” That has ominous implication for maintaining truth.


(Dee Roberts) #5

@blc it seems to me that what you are saying you are a “control freak” and are not willing to allow God to be more than a rule book that can be applied. I will take it one step farther, the rules applied as you interpret them.


(le vieux) #6

Was God a “control freak” when He struck down Uzzah for daring to touch the sacred ark? How about when he opened up the earth to swallow Korah, Dathan, and Abiram for their rebellion against His chosen leader? And then there was the son of Judah, who was struck dead because he would not perform his duty to his deceased brother’s wife. God is merciful and slow to anger, but He will not be trifled with, nor allow His truth to be compromised.


(Dee Roberts) #7

It seem to me that adventism’s historic background is based in the “control freak” approach mentality and as such we fail to appreciate God’s love of diversity within his creation and within humankind. I understand that some people feel far more secure with everything “well defined”, so be it. But I just cannot go there and see the God that my study and experience reveals to me. Thank God we don’t have to sort it out here. Let the field ripen to the harvest and the God will sort the wheat from the chaff. So let us spend our timing living compassionately and inclusively, for unto the least of these, you have done it unto ME.

@blc Have a great Sabbath day!


(Yoyo7th) #8

blc,

I understand your reaction and did not post to counter yours. I was exploring the motivation of your response. guest 57 might have picked up on the same theme.

Fear and insecurity prompt controlling actions and responses to reestablish peace and security.

“When freedom destroys order, the yearning for order will destroy freedom” Eric Hoffer

I would think that very few visiting Spectrum will listen to this sermon, even it being only 19 minutes long.
The inclusion of this homily will be of little consequence for this site.
Especially with so much exposure to WO, Evolution, LGBT issues, leadership assaults.

I understand that we must challenge and guard against false teachers. Ted Wilson has expressed his concern about clergy of other faiths/denominations speaking in SDA pulpits.

The bible , especially the New testament have several verses where Jesus, Paul, John, and Jude input on the dangers of false teaching.

I listened to Leonard and understood his presentation. He does get into ambiguity and the presentation was far different than most SDA homilies.

Leonard’s agenda/goal can be better understood by visiting the Wikipedia site for his bio.

One can be benefited by his input if they are tuned into his purpose.

I agree with you that clearer is better…NEH 8:8

As far as I am concerned…contemporary SDA homilies are actually more dangerous because of the pastors warping the scriptures to align with the trend of intellectual assent as far as righteousness.


(George Tichy) #9

Pici:
Just curious, but:

  1. Did you read any of his books? Y/N
  2. Did you attend to any of his speeches? Y/N
  3. Did you watch this video? Y/N

Hope you don’t dodge the questions, or, instead of responding, come up with a lecture.

My personal answer is NO to all of them, so I will abstain to comment on him. I will watch the video later on to get acquainted with him, and see what I think.

By the way, Spectrum is not “promoting” him, just offering an opportunity to all of us to verify if your personal thoughts about him have any relevance. Will see.


(George Tichy) #10

It seems that people like Pici would control people’s conscience if they could. Similar to the “TW technique” of allowing people to read only denominational literature. IOW, keep people encapsulated in a very small, controllable buble, don’t let them see more than you think they should.

What gives them the right to control other people’s lives like this? And some of them blame the RCC for having done exactly the same thing in the past! Can’t they come out of the stone age mentality? Why not?
I don’t get it!


(Dee Roberts) #11

I know what you mean George.

I have heard Leonard speak three time in person, and I have watched several videos on a variety of topics he has done, plus started on one of his book (about 50%) and have had dinner with him once. (Other at the table as well). He is a very engaging person and speaker and has an amazing ability to connect the aspects of our lives to scripture or relationship to God and to other.

I expect that Pici’s prejudice about him prevent him from hearing what he is saying. Granted it is not an etched in stone, sort of way of thing about God and the universe, but it is a real and vital way to approach the scripture and God.


(George Tichy) #12

Thanks for sharing. I will check this guy out a little bit more. Every time Pici is against it, it’s worth to take a look… (which he usually didn’t do himself, like in Ford’s case).


(le vieux) #13

I agree that we should live “compassionately and inclusively,” but that comes withing the boundaries of the truths laid out for us, as clearly articulated by Jesus (sermon on the mount), Paul, Peter, et. al. “Inclusiveness” has its limits, and it is compassion that ignores a sibling’s destructive behavior under the mantra of "live and let live.’


(le vieux) #14

Good point. At least with guys like Leonard Sweet, et. al., we know not to expect the unvarnished truth.


(le vieux) #15

Come on George; we’ve been down this road before. I don’t need to read much of what someone says to get the gist of their philosophy. I did watch most of the video (mainly because I knew you’d pose that question :slight_smile: ). There’s just enough ambiguity to allow for “whatever floats your boat” creativity.

I’ve read very little of what Adolf Hitler wrote, but I know he was an evil man. I’ve probably read more of what Sweet wrote than that, and while I believe he is sincere, I also believe he teaches error. He’s into Spiritual Formation and the Emergent Church. That tells me a lot right there.


(Andreas Bochmann) #16

At least for my cross eyed (language can be so beautiful in its double meanings…) vision I found this presentation quite stimulating. But then, George, you well know that psychos tick differently. :wink:
If I was yoyo7th I’d probably complain that a proper exposition was missing (a valid point perhaps) - it was more of a parable, or even worse - a topical sermon(?). However, the point made certainly is worth pondering, especially for Adventists, who try so hard to see and understand, rather than to know (in a biblical sense) - which indeed has to do with trust and letting go.


(George Tichy) #17

So Pici, since you can’t detect anything negative, you have to go into the supposition business. And of course, compare this presenter with Hitler.

By the way Pici, can you tell me in a few words what is Spiritual Formatiom?


(le vieux) #18

No, of course not. It’s a many faceted program, which is just complicated enough to require a fair amount of unpacking. But it includes “Contemplative Prayer,” which is nothing more than transcendental meditation dressed up in “Christian” language. That fact alone is enough to reject it. But, wait, there’s more, In includes the spiritual exercises of Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuits–another reason to steer clear of it. In short, it is structured upon Jesuit pantheistic spirituality. The fact that Sweet promotes this stuff should be enough to keep any sincere SDA from listening to him.


(George Tichy) #19

I don’t understand this paranoia against meditation. The Bible recommends. I remember that EGW recommended it often. What could probably mean the recommendation to spend at least one hour a day meditating? It’s amazing how some of you guys can twist things just to oppose something you suddenly labeled as being of Satanic origin. To contradict yourselves that much is puzzling.

Please provide the source where you saw/read this. I want to check for myself.

Judgmental. Now are you telling me that just because yesterday I watched the short video I am no longer a sincere SDA. Well, what about spreading information about others and their teachings without having examined those teachings? Isn’t this intellectual/spiritual dishonesty aiming character assassination without a case?

By the way, knowing that you most probably avoided any contact with the ‘diabolic video’ in question, I must tell you that there is nothing, nada, rien that one could say against what he preached.

But, knowing your ‘modus operandi’ I already expect you to continue spreading your personal bashing opinion without even checking the issue that you are talking about. This certainly builds credibility, doesn’t it???


(Andreas Bochmann) #20

Hmmm, learned something new… A certain Miss Harmon used to be a professed Methodist too, if I remember correctly. And she strongly recommended meditating upon Bible passages, creatively retelling biblical stories to make them come alive for her time… Dangerous stuff…

In all seriousness - I agree, we ought to be careful, even skeptical. But basically that is where my agreement with your views stops.