Sabbath Sermon: Os Guinness, "Challenging the Darkness: Towards a New Christian Renaissance"

(Spectrumbot) #1

Sabbath Sermon: Os Guinness, "Challenging the Darkness: Towards a New Christian Renaissance"

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This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at

(Elaine Nelson) #2

Who is Os Guiness? He is no identified, perhaps everyone knows who he is?

( , - webEd)

(George Davidovich) #3

Very interesting dissertation, I disagreed with a couple of his points, such as:

  1. Christinanity is not responsible for the Dark Ages
  2. The counter-reformation of the Jesuits is a reformation of sorts and it had the one missing ingredient of the Reformation – mission.

But agreed with several others:

A. The surprising reversals of the church in both ancient and modern history through entanglement with power and politics, capitulation to roman culture and to its own developed culture: Christendom, which resulted in the greatest evils of human history, all in the name of Jesus.
B. God’s spirit works through “these surprising reversals”, through unknown and unrecognized people, such as John the Baptist, the upside down kingdom, the humble exalted.
C. The Spirit leads the church.
D. The “Populist” cultural trend, as he calls it, of the Second Awakening – the suspicion of our church leaders and hierarchy , the progressive seeking immediate reward through root / mass movements yet unable to change culture.

Ultimately I believe he has a point we should all pay attention: “The church goes forward best by going back first”; and his question: can the church be revived for a third time in the West? To answer this question he paraphrases Dobson: we should not answer this question quickly or in haste because this time the future of humanity could be at stake; I believe this question has already been answered by God through a “surprising reversal” using an unknown and unrecognized voice, in the workings of a third revival that started in 1844, under the guidance and leadership of the Spirit.

(Marianne Faust) #4

He is really good. One of his books I really like is: Fit Bodies Fat Minds…but all of his books are recommendable.

(Steve Mga) #5

1888 was the preparation for the 3rd Great Awakening of 1890 to 1930.
But we missed it because of INFIGHTING within the SDA church.
According to some Religion Sociologists, we are in the Middle of the 4th Awakening,
but the Church is missing this one also.

(Elaine Nelson) #6

Steve, tell us more about those other “Great Awakenings” in the religious world.

(George Davidovich) #7

“But we missed it because of INFIGHTING within the SDA church”

Indeed we did that, about a year ago I listened to a sermon by Walter Veith where he parallels what happened in 1888 to Israel’s experience at kadesh Barnea, and how they had to wait for the next generation before they could enter the promised land. This sermon incidentally also provides a long list of historical events that occurred in 1844 that is very useful for those who believe that the year merely points to a bitter disappointment or simply an error.
I know how a lot of people feel about Veith but I seriously recommend it - no conspiracies here

sorry, made a mistake - the Kadesh Barnea video was actually separate from the 1844 video above, here it is below.

(Steve Mga) #8

1st Great Awakening – 1730 to 1760
2nd Great Awakening – 1800 to 1830 [but I really believe it continued to the 1840s]
3rd Great Awakening – 1890 to 1920
4th Awakening [according to William McLoughlin] began about 1960-1970s, start of to present.
— Diana Butler Bass, Christianity After Religion, [Harper Collins, 2012].

(George Tichy) #9

The current “awakening” is happening quickly: The UNIONS are awakening for the facts that THEY have the authority to legislate on WO, and not the GC. The GC has zero power, and it’s not happy with that.

I hope the Unions hold on to the power they have now, and don’t fall trapped into some trick delivered by the GC.


(Elaine Nelson) #10

That is one “awakening” that will not be expected.

(Steve Mga) #11

Infrequently one hears from the pulpit the command of Jesus –
"Pray to the Father that He will send forth reapers into the harvest field."
Once in a while a church group will sing the song that encases these words –
“Oh, where are the reapers to garner in…”

But then, we put gender qualifications on WHO can be a “reaper”. And dismiss at least
60% of the Adventist population from the call.
Not only that, but think of all the brain power lost in the development of Evangelistic Tools.
Or, is that the Real Issue? the “other gender” may develop better ways to introduce Christ
to the World.

(George Tichy) #12

It could well be! fear.
Fear that one (male) may not keep up with the female creativity, may be caught with lack of intuition, and may feel slow comparing his own brain’s speed with the female’s in communicating between the R and L lobes.

Therefore,… it’s imperative to manipulate the issue to avoid “grave consequences”(aka embarrassment!)…

(Thomas J Zwemer) #13

read what the Pope writes and read what Ted writes and decide who waking up. Tom Z

(George Tichy) #14

The two are walking in opposite directions. Since it’s evident that the Pope is moving forward, Wilson’s direction is more than obvious!