Sabbath Sermon: Ron Osborn, "The Victory of Defeat: A Nonviolent Reading of Revelation"

(system) #1

Sabbath Sermon: Ron Osborn, "The Victory of Defeat: A Nonviolent Reading of Revelation"

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This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at

(Marianne Faust) #2

Great Sermon! Helped me to understand revelation much better! Thank you!

(George Davidovich) #3

Beautiful reading and analysis. I have always looked at Revelation as a book of hope. Hope for the restoration of justice to untold millions of victims who have suffered at the hand of the beast for thousandths of years. I can’t wait for the beast to be revealed and defeated, for all its secrets, mysteries and machinations to be exposed, for the King of Peace to restore us to his kingdom as originally intended and reign forever.

(Thomas J Zwemer) #4

The Apostle John is in exile. He is concerned about his friends in Asia Minor. Christ gives John a vision and a message. the message is of rebuke and promise.First the church is not perfect, yet it is Christ’s love, as a father’s love He rebukes and chastises. John is faced with two messages, rebuke and one of eventual hope and assurance.

we face the same. doctrinally we insist on own own reading, as faulty as it maybe, yet we face a world insisting on its own destruction.

The story is twofold, Christ, the Lamb has won. The beast not satisfied makes war on those who trust in the Lamb’s victory.

the message is clear–hold fast until I return., even in the face of death.

The message is not the perfection of the Church, but the perfection of the Lamb. our hope is in His Righteousness, not ours. the only hope we hold is that Christ is King above all. Tom Z

(Elaine Nelson) #5

Is there a beast worse than the devil? Hasn’t he always been pictured as God’s adversary long before a church leader.

(k_Lutz) #6

Nope. As you have often pointed out SATAN did not occur in Jewish thought until their Babylonish excursion. Which makes ‘always’ a bit hyperbolic, don’t you think?

Trust the Process.

(Elaine Nelson) #7

Yes, Satan became part of Jewish tradition but rose to more prominence in the Christian religion, culminating in Revelation as the co-star. When did Satan merge into the Roman Catholic church?

(k_Lutz) #8

While I am not studied in ‘christian’ history, I believe it was the Protestant Reformation that characterized the RCC as the beast of Revelation, little realizing that the imposition of their views relegated them to the same characterization. O what a tangled web we weave …

Trust God.

(Elaine Nelson) #9

And Adventists bought and became a consistent advocate for anti-Catholicism. Yes, it is sad.

(George Tichy) #10

It seems that Satan has also experienced an evolutionary process in people’s minds throughout the ages.

(George Davidovich) #11

Somehow I never received a notification of this reply but what I find very interesting is that one of your own Spectrunite cohorts has corrected you on your inconsistent position here from past discussions, and you agreed (sort of)! (lets not revisit the illusory folly of the King of Tyre please).
"Is there a beast worse than the devil? " (is this a trick question?) It all depends on your definition - Since the devil is described as a dragon and a serpent it technically qualifies as a beast so I guess your answer would be “NO” - but “The Beast” and his followers however, worship the dragon and it takes his power from also from the dragon so they seem very similar in purpose and deeds.

(George Tichy) #12

Since you replied to your own post, I bet Elaine never received communication about your post above addressed to her. (just trying to help)

(Elaine Nelson) #13

No, I didn’t receive his reply.

(George Davidovich) #14

Nope, Pope John XXII was identified as Antichrist long before Luther and the Christian Reformation, and even a pope called another pope Antichrist (you can figure that one yourself).

(George Davidovich) #15

Funny, I’ve seen other people do that before and now it is my turn, thanks

(George Davidovich) #16

Actually this problem is a bug - just tried to reply to Elaine again @ageis7 but my reply was already there