Sabbath UnSermon: Deborah Haarsma, "BioLogos Interview with Deborah Haarsma"

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Sabbath UnSermon: Deborah Haarsma, "BioLogos Interview with Deborah Haarsma"

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This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at

(Andreas Bochmann) #2

If you don’t want to watch the whole interview:

NOT the WHEN and the HOW, BUT the WHO and the WHY matters.

(Sorry editors, did I give away too much?)

(Pagophilus) #3

I don’t know how some people have the time to watch so many videos. They must be either unemployed or retired.

However - Biologos - aren’t they pushing theistic evolution? If so, why promote them in an Adventist environment? Oh, I know. Spectrum is basically trying to introduce three main points into Adventism - 1: Ordination of Women; 2: Acceptance of homosexuality; 3: Acceptance of evolution.

On point 1 it looks like they will succeed, because many others are also pushing this. On point 2, they will only ever partially succeed. Too many grass roots Adventists will push back. On point 3 they will never truly succeed. When the grass roots Adventists realise just how many teachers/administrators are pushing this they will also push back, big time.

Sorry, but the Bible tells us exactly the HOW and the WHEN. The HOW was by speaking and the WHEN, if you add up the various ages and rulerships, was about 6000 years ago. (And it took 6 days if I remember correctly.) Why are we still having these discussions? The Bible tells us exactly what happened and when. We as Adventists believe the Bible. It’s not hard.

(le vieux) #4

I’ve wondered the same thing myself. I don’t have that kind of time. As for Biologos, yes they do promote theistic evolution, or progressive creation, I’m not sure which, but both deny the Genesis narrative.

(Marianne Faust) #5

Pago and Pici…I’m neither unemployed nor retired. Sometimes I watch videos and sometimes I even take the time to read. Its not a question of how much time we have, its a question of how we chose to use our time.
You chose to use quite a lot of your time to write this kind of dismissing and contemptuous posts (without knowing the content of the rejected article or video)…well, your choice, but please don’t think this is a better way to spend time than actually listen to other people, what they have to say.
I’m not saying that I agree with everything she said, but rejecting without listening… is that what christians are supposed to do?

(George Tichy) #6

AKA “the Spectrum Conspiracy,” right?

(Thomas J Zwemer) #7

George As I recall Spectrum was created to tell truth to power…It has been a defendant of essential Adventist Doctrine, but it has been outspoken on Administrative control of Truth. the church structure is becoming more and more popish. you and I see a major shift next year. There is no serious contest over the Who of creation, not even the how. The Ussher dating is strongly challenged an rightly so. I support the Roth, Coffin view. Tom Z

(George Tichy) #8

Tom, I am sure we will she a “major shift.” Indeed! :slight_smile:

(Interested Friend) #9

Not only time to watch videos but some posters seem to have more hours in the day than I do.

(Interested Friend) #10

Isn’t that an ad hominem statement? To label a defender of the faith as writing “contemptuous posts” is beyond the pale.
In The Grip of Truth

(Pagophilus) #11

Dead right George. Do you believe in Jesuits?

(Pagophilus) #12


Many of us have spent a lot of time listening and reading in order to establish the truth in their minds. A lot of time was spent weeding out truth from error. Now, having been established in the truth, it is not profitable to waste time listening to or reading from those who are clearly (by their association in this case with Biologos - an organisation promoting theistic evolution) still working their way up the garden path.

If we, as Adventists, accept the Bible as God’s word, and the Bible gives us a timeline and historical record of Creation, why waste the time to go to those who don’t believe the Bible in order to be supposedly Christian and listen to them?

(Andreas Bochmann) #13

I don’t know how some people have the time to read and write so many posts in this forum, repeating the same unkind allegations.

As to Biologos - you seem to be quite well informed - which must have involved some research (unless your statement was based on hear-say). So why not allow others to do their search as well?

As to the HOW and WHEN… Perhaps you care to explain what difference the time-line makes for your everyday Christian life - apart from being “right”. As to your interpretation of the HOW (which theological is quite correct), please explain why the sentence “Let there be light” would have taken and omnipotent God 24 hours of 60 minutes each to utter. Perhaps after reflection you might even agree that it is the WHO and the WHY that matters. Well, maybe not.

(Pagophilus) #14

Why let them waste their time when I can tell them. From Biologos’ own website:

BioLogos invites the church and the world to see the harmony between science and biblical faith as we present an evolutionary understanding of God’s creation.

The problem being that the Bible doesn’t allow an evolutionary understanding of God’s creation. The Bible allows an instantaneous creation, which went downhill after sin entered through Adam and Eve.

We affirm evolutionary creation, recognizing God as Creator of all life over billions of years.

Yes, but the Bible recognises God as creator of all life over 6 days (well, actually less than that).

(Thomas J Zwemer) #15

one cannot be a true Christian without affirming that the Creator died to redeem fallen man. a man made perfect from a mound of a Clay into a perfect moral, sinless thinking man, (just but the sound of a His voice) able to converse with his Creator face to face. Theistic evolution is a cop out. Tom Z