Sex: A Union of Church and State

Good way with words. As I have matured, I’ve come to question many absolutist statements from religionists. Many times there seem to be agendas attached.
A good example of what I see as an absolute is gravity.


absolutely…the whole subject of sex, and everything sexual, seems to be something our church has always had difficulty in really addressing and examining…and yet, all of us are here because two people in the past decided to have sex…


I fear that you and others who have responded in this space may be technically correct as it pertains to Roe v. Wade being settled federal law, but in reality, you are sadly mistaken. State courts have eviscerated Roe v. Wade with statutes that have effectively made abortions and also access to women’s health services unavailable, especially to poor women.


Where did you read that?

The biblical view in the Jewish bible, as understood by Jews, is that life begins at the first breath. They also gather, indirectly, from the Law in the bible that fetuses do not have souls, but instead receive them when they are born - when they emerge and take the first breath.

Therefore a fetus is not fully human and so the mother’s life always takes priority. Terminating a pregnancy is not murder by this way of biblical thinking.

In the bible, striking a woman and causing her to miscarry and lose the baby is not considered murder, but is a financial offense and is solved with payment to her/her husband. But if she is harmed, the penalty is to inflict the same harm on the perp, up to and including death. Exodus 21:22-23

Jews do use the scripture to understand that abortion should be considered carefully, and regulated under Jewish law within the faith. They recognize that there is life there, but do not consider it human, according to biblical teaching.

For a good articles on this, see:



That is States rights. States rights should in most cases be more important than Fed gov. Some states have stricter gun laws then the Fed. Some have stricter gas admissions etc… The Fed Gov should not be more powerful than individual states. That was never the intent of our founders.


What about the 10 commandments speaks to abortion? I don’t see it in there.

Hint: It’s not there. This is because - biblically - fetuses are not considered human. They are not considered to have souls until they are born and take the first breath. In fact, to this day Jewish death rights do not apply to stillborn babies - because they never received a soul and were never fully human.

If it is so clear and plain, then why do dedicated Christians - even theologians - hold a variety of views on the subject based on the bible?

Another hint: Because it is not plain or clear from the bible. The bible never mentions abortion.


As I always say, most of the so called “pro-life” people have no problem with being actually “pro-death”…


WOW, Robin…
I never saw you writing a whole post based on blatant DENIAL.
This was the first time!


And therefore… it is a choice between a woman her Dr. and her God.


It is ironic that the conservative front, including Evangelicals, vote for Republicans because they think they will try to legislate away abortions (as if that would work when it never has before in the history of humans), when in fact the best way to avoid elective abortions is to avoid unwanted pregnancies.

Abortion rates drop under Democratic presidents far more than they do under Republican presidents. You want less abortion, then vote Democratic.


Among which is this idea of an immortal soul. This has bearing if one really thinks about it. It’s about much more than just saving babies.


This statement does not ring true or correct:

  1. Countries are not responsible for new viruses. Nature is. Viruses evolve all by themselves.
  2. Under Trump and his abject lack of leadership, the US is one of the poorest performing countries in the world, if not the worst, while being among the richest and most capable. The US has 4% of the world’s population and 20% of the deaths from COVID-19. That is five times more than we would have if we were just an average nation. If we were just average, just basically competent, we’d have about 40,000 deaths. Not 200,000.

Please be advised that third world countries in Africa, Asia, Middle East etc,
are not equipped
to adequately count and document their WUHAN VIRUS deaths —
many such deaths are occurring in huts
or shanty towns, so they are undocumented / uncounted.

Also be advised that even in the USA many COVID deaths were actually due to other
causes, ( but just incidentally, had a positive COVIS test )
so were not uniquely and solely caused by the Chinese virus

So it is inaccurate to say that USA has 4% of the world’s population
and 20% of the deaths.

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The “WUHAN VIRUS”? That is not its name and is a disparaging nick-name for it used by the likes of Trump. You are showing your hand when you use such a term.

Under-reporting happens everywhere, including in the US. Based on various models both cases and deaths are under-reported by a statically-significant amount.

In any case though, known cases and deaths are a reasonable measure to use and for the large part represent what has happened.

To be very specifically-accurate I should have written, “The US has 4% of the world’s known population and 20% of the known deaths from COVID-19.”

In any case, Africa does not appear to be doing so bad. Much of it is not the backwater you imply:


Tim do you really care what name is applied? We all call it different things with no meaning other than it’s a name the people we are communicating with know what we are talking about. My sisters and I call it 19. It doesn’t mean a darn thing


Yes I do. It matters. Trump calls it the “China virus” and the “Wuhan virus” in a disparaging way, as if China is to blame for its existence and spread.


Hello Bob,
I was thunderstruck when I saw the implications of your reply. I know the Catholic theology of original sin and the necessity of infant baptism, but I had never connected the dots.


I think Africans were spared for one simple reason . They are not running a healthcare system with government insurance that incentiviced classification and diagnosis. I can guarantee you if African hospitals were paid 14k for covid case, and 35k for covid on ventilator… there would be a global Covid emergency in Africa of historic scale.


If the president were pro-life, he would have worn a mask from Day One. He knows the power of optics and did not use his bully pulpit or his own influence to wear the number one preventative measure to save lives.

Although I wish him well and a full recovery, there are consequences for his choices. Sadly, these can be life-threatening choices.

I did not miss that he wore a mask to board the helicopter ferrying him to Walter Reed Hospital.


Well I will respect your opinion. For me it really doesn’t affect me