Let me rephrase and simplify things. This has been a hot topic, a very sensitive issue where a lot of church members will disagree. Defend, qoute and define all you want the bottomline is - can we not trigger something that would divide us as a church?
I am not going down the road where you try to question how well I understood the General Conference’s decision and what not. YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT.
What was very clear in that world meeting was we decided not to proceed with Ordaining Women as Pastors. As to whatever underlying statement and dispositions followed with that decision, what is very clear is that further disagreement on that standpoint will cause not just one or two members in the church to stand.
It will be like ripple getting bigger, simply put many will disagree. Can you guys not wait for another world meeting on this issue to be address and respect the standpoint of the majority on this topic REGARDLESS OF THE UNDERLYING DETAILS YOU WANT TO PUSH THROUGH TO SERVE YOUR AGENDA?
If you were going to register your displeasure strongly, the least you could do is be certain of your argument. In this case you’re not even close. The question was whether allow divisions to ordain women ministers…
Here was the question voted:
“After your prayerful study on ordination from the Bible, the writings of Ellen G. White, and the reports of the study commissions; and after your careful consideration of what is best for the church and the fulfillment of its mission, is it acceptable for division executive committees, as they may deem it appropriate in their territories, to make provision for the ordination of women to the gospel ministry? Yes or No.”
In a time where a lot of members in the church do not speak your language and cannot get along the academic line of discussion level you are at, what a perfect timing to do such an event?
Let me ask you this. How would you explain this to members of lesser faith and moreover of lesser education who understood one simple thing that the General Conference did not allow Women Ordination.
You are just looking within the confines of your division. Now, tell me how would you explain it to the less educated members looking up spritiually and for very simple reasons to proceed with their Christian walk?
When I said ripple, this ordination or whatever stuff you did will ripple across the entire globe causing questions to a lot of simple members. By simple I mean, those who couldn’t afford to finish a degree, much less to understand the nuances of the english language.
It was easier to actually wait for another meeting, hold your academic and spritual concerns on the matter and look for the right opportunity to be heard on this issue.
I dare you try to explain your event to members across the globe who can’t event finish a single english sentence. That is the ripple I meant. Not everyone will get it. It only creates division.
I fully agree with you. Let’s fault the GC for not properly educating its delegates. Perhaps they were wishing the delegate would err and benefit their agenda. However the question was worded that even the angels and HS were confused, not to mention the delegates themselves.
If you keep yelling at us here (capital letters), the @WebEd will get really aggravated with this. Tone down, slow down, otherwise you will be in trouble. And we want you to stay so that the conversation can continue and you have the opportunity to put on the table your opinions.
The part of your statement that I quoted above is false, ill informed, and misleading. You are interacting with people very well informed here. So, maybe you choose to go a little slower and start to listen to what is being presented by others.
You opinion will be welcome, but only if it is presented with respect and dignity. I am just sharing with you a few thoughts based on a long term experience on this site, trying to help you to avoid getting in trouble and becoming “persona non grata.”. But you do whatever you want.
Find one what, Friend? You’ll need to be a bit less dramatic and a bit more specific in order for me to decipher what you’re attempting to communicate.
I am not yelling, forgive me about the caps. It’s a thing we usually do on facebook with friends. My fault for not realizing I’m talking to a different circle.
Seriously, not wanting to yell at any of you but George I don’t like being threatened with “persona non grata” (let’s leave it at that)
That is my opinion and is the opinion of a lot of my friends, colleagues on facebook right now after seeing your article here. We are even discussing this as we speak.
Yet again we don’t have to kill each other on the discussion. Yes, I am obviously blunt on my words and approach (not asking for an apology) but pardon me for the caps, not intending to yell at you or anyone for that matter.
Reality check. Not everyone will understand and sympathize with your actions and in no way I am not judging - heck no.
Simple point is, you guys should realize and own the fact that this will resound on a global stage and possibly trigger heated discussions and misunderstanding.
Anyway, I’ve said my part, that doesn’t make you any less of a candidate for heaven. We are just on different sides.
To be clear, I stand on the side of - “Why can’t these people wait?”
Still, my side is arguable. Thanks for this discussion board.
I hear you and I speak with vulgarity if that puts you at ease. We could tear each other apart all day long or you could just be you and me be me (being straightforward)
Hi @honeybem, welcome to the conversation here on Spectrum. Your comments will not be deleted, nor will you be suspended/banned simply for stating your opinion, as long as you can abide by our commenting policy, which we encourage everyone to read. You are welcome to stay and dialogue for as long as you like if you can do so in a manner that is courteous and respectful of your fellow commenters.
So @honeybem you would say to the Shawna Campbells of the church, the ordained women pastors in China who pastor churches with 6,000 to 8,000 members, Adventist senior pastors around the world, you would say, “Sit down. Please ignore the calling from the Holy Spirit and do not participate in our church in the place the congregation has affirmed you for. Just get over it and stop your leading and preaching of the Gospel because someone less educated in an unknown place might not understand.”
The matter facing our church is not that we have people too uneducated in foreign countries or lack language skills in English. The core issue is that leadership and many in our church are confusing salvation and moral requirements of God with matters that are not. That demanding obedience in matters not included in these categories have created artificial crisis. God has not demanded this of us and indeed we are warned by His messenger very clearly about this issue.
In the 1890’s EGW and others spoke out against GC leaders who promulgated the same solutions for the same problems we see now. Like you I did not see what the big deal was until I read what she counseled against and issues that the church was facing. If was after I read through the issues and proposals that leaders at that time were addressing and their solutions that I understood history was repeating. Her God given counsel on the matter is what I found most compelling and resulted in my changing my level of thinking. Go back and really examine the record on this and you will find that it applies the same today. Be honest and open to learning what has been said.
Do you reject the counsel of the Lord given by EGW to the GC that admonishes and condemns the exact same solutions to issues we face today?
Y__ or N__