Six Unions Given Warnings for Their Stance on Ordination — Annual Council Report 5

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#21

Will the NEXT button to be worn in church be
“SHAMED” or some version of it? In the “shamed”
Unions?
In support to their “shamed” Union Presidents.
Recall – the “shame” of Jesus was His victory for the human race.

Perhaps the % of money released by the 2 Unions needs to be
cut down to 2-3% of what they were passing along. A token bit of
funds leaving the Union, going upward.
Majority [97-98%] of monies collected remain in the Union and those
Conferences making up the Unions.
One could put a time limit on the Vote – say 8 years. Then review if
desire to continue it.

5 Likes
#22

His strategy, it seems, is to berate until he controls, until all bend to his will and those who are in support of his stance. There is no “exit” in it, except maybe the forced exit of those who support WO. This isn’t Spirit led leadership.

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#23

I just watched a replay of the Tuesday afternoon session at AC (4hrs I will never get back). I cannot believe what I watched. There was a distinct undertone from the chair and several speakers from the floor, that the rule of law is paramount. Over conscience, over principle and over Christ’s example. The level of intransigence and beligerence evident in the behaviour of the chair I have never witnessed before. In cases like that where the chair is outright “hostile” a motion should be made to censure or replace the chair

Apart from the above, two things stand out for me:

  1. The non-compliant entities were part of a process but (to their point) were not aware they were part of the process. A process that was back dated up to 7 years. Surely during that time it was possible for the GC to explicitly state to the entities that they were part of the process.
  2. When it suits his purpose, TW will hide behind others - process, protocol and committee (the non-recognised speaker from IAD got under his skin somewhat when he raised “compliant committees”). He made a point of reminding the CUC President of the “correct” protocol. “It is not my choice, the committee voted” etc.

I really appreciated the statements by the Europeans. The Church in Europe is in good hands, if they can be left to get on with it. It is absurd to warn a Union because they don’t ordain people, especially in a motion aimed at stopping the ordination of “inappropriate people”. The greater question is not “Should we ordain women” but “Should we ordain anybody under the current non-biblical paradigm.”

The national motto of Indonesia is “Unity in Diversity”. This is a sentiment that the leaders of the Church would do well to follow.

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#24

It appears honorable to me - to be publicly shamed for insisting that equality be observed and applied equally. Elder Graham: Well done, good and faithful servant. I’m thanking God for you today.

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#25

As it was during the time of Samuel, the King was in rebellion, so now the leadership of the denomination is similarly in rebellion.

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#26

Indeed! Several times in particular with TW himself being deeply disrespectful of his subordinates.

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#27

In that group of 288 there were 92/94 die hards for PUNISHMENT.
For Reprimand and against just a warning.
QUESTION – Does Reprimand mean the next thing to President
Wilson publicly and forcefully removing these 2 men from their
office of being Union presidents???
What about those European Unions? Can President Wilson
publicly and forcefully remove those persons from their elected
Office?
President Wilson certainly showed his “Irritated side” in his curt
remarks.
I don’t believe anyone liked former president Paulsen for his
comments and WARNINGS. Wilson thanked him but ONLY
because he was expected to in this public place.

Did anyone Notice – It is POLICY and RULES BEFORE preaching the
Gospel. Policy of RULES AND REGULATIONS Before Souls saved.
It DID NOT matter that with increased revenue that the Union/Conferences
could hire more pastors.
ONLY Policies AND Rules Won the Day!!

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#28

Hi praise for Ricardo Graham, Dave Weigel and the European unions.

“… Finally, if this vote fails and we decide to reprimand, I will wear it as a badge of honor standing up for equality, recognizing the gifts in men and women that God gives. Thank you, sir.”

Gentlemen (and ladies, including Sandy Roberts, SECC President). Remember that “the church” of it’s day excommunicated Martin Luther - and God’s work multiplied because of that.

Keep standing tall and thank you!

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#29

A woman was responsible, apparently, for the downfall of mankind. This beguilement by the serpent (Satan) is forever being thrown in our face.

Slight deviation…why isn’t there a compliance document around vaccinations? :wink: The Adventist Health Ministries encourages vaccination. It’s voluntary of course, but there are church members who spread false rumours and conspiracies to persuade families not to vaccinate their children. Isn’t the spread of infectious diseases considered a Health & Safety issue? There are risks to the health and wellbeing of children who attend Sabbath School with other children who aren’t vaccinated. There are unnecessary deaths. Many parents are too scared to vaccinate their children. Perhaps more effort with educating church members around infectious disease control, including a history lesson could help alleviate some of the reluctance we are witnessing. (Search for Adventist wellness lecturer and naturopath Barbara O’Neill who has just been banned from practicing in Australia by the HCCC, and soon to be lecturing at a wellness programme in the USA) Sorry I realise this is a controversial topic and maybe not entirely related to the current topic. :smirk: :mask:

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#30

TW showing the stick:

Regarding other areas for warning, he said financial areas are being considered. “There are a couple other areas that may come into play in the future in terms of institutions or organizations that are not promoting and living up to especially in the area of our biblical understanding of creation. The homosexuality situation is looming large, but we don’t have anything at this point where we would have to take action but we could at some point.”

  1. We’re going to take away your money.
  2. We’re going to make sure you know that this is just the beginning. Next, we are going after your teachers, and your “unnatural, undesirables”.

Where from history have I heard that before? Oh yeah, I remember.

I appreciate that Ricardo Graham said that he would always remain a Seventh-day Adventist (although perhaps a close reading might conclude he didn’t swear allegiance to the GC).

However, I will not support an organization that both denigrates people and enforces their power in such a way. This is not of the Kingdom of God. If and when a sustain-ably sized group forms that represents my values as an SDA, I will joyfully join them.

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#31

Did you notice in the Quotation saying of Pres. Wilson
his next fights are going to be–
OUR Biblical understanding of creation by institutions and
organizations.
He is talking specifically about Academies and Universities,
and probably some others.
Homosexuality [situation is looming large]
What he means is TOO MANY SDA churches are accepting
“homosexuals” in their communities. And is against SDA
RULES again.

The Roman Cardinals have certainly taken over. Perhaps the
“fear” of Jesuits in the GC Leadership [including Committees]
has come true, and IS true.

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#32

Raewyn, I think your post is pretty much on topic and points out two things. First, there are many actual Church teachings that are widely ignored. The men in charge have chosen which issue to artificially turn into a major sticking point by their votes. Second, the lives of everyday people are tangibly affected when some teachings are ignored, but because there hasn’t been a vote by the right people, nothing will be done to protect or help those people. The priorities don’t make any sense.

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#33

He’s clearly (IMO) planning on another term so he can take on other issues, and finish what he started regarding WO, to purify the SDA church.

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#34

The rebels against properly ordained authority in the church emulate the same rebel spirit against the president who was voted in by the citizens of this country,

Of course you are proud of your rebellion as you affirm each other that you are like Martin Luther trying to reform the church.
NOT.

OH well, carry on. We will see how it all works out in the end, won’t we?

You see yourselves as great reformers. Conservatives see you as a Korah rebellion against properly ordained authority.

Male headship has not been negated by any “gospel” of the new testament that undermines the law of God. Male headship will stand in this life and in the age to come. God ordained it.

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#35

I think this is the best one. I would not even include #GCAC19, because a little mystery is effective. I’ll wear it as a badge of honor.

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#36

Bill, here is a sincere question for you. Does it make you happy to come and read here and participate in these discussions? For me, I’ve been applying the Kondo method to my online life and whatever doesn’t spark joy, I get rid of that thing.

It’s true that we all have our own point of view on these matters, and it’s also true that “we’ll see how it all works out in the end.” Ultimately, we all must judge for ourselves the right course of action. Maybe I’ll change my screen name to Korah. However, my conscience tells me that wouldn’t be fitting.

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#37

The principal component of male headship theory is the anti-Trinitarian heresy of neo-subordinationism. Bill, we are not going to debase our precious Lord and Savior. We will never yield.

We will stand with Athanasius and you can stand with Emperor Theodosius. Athanasius suffered five exiles totaling seventeen years as a result of his fidelity to the Trinity. A story of unknown origin is told of his confrontation with Emperor Theodosius. Emperor Theodosius demanded that Athanasius cease opposing Arius and pointedly asked, “Do you not realize that the world is against you?” Athanasius quickly answered, “Then I am against the world.” And he has been honored with the name Athanasius Contra Mundum ever since.

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#38

As it was in the days of the Prophet Samuel when the King was in rebellion against God, the current leaders of the SDA denomination find themselves in a similar state, and like the King they appear to be seeking strange counsel. That is if Christ’s Gospel means anything at all. If it does not, then yes, carry on Ted. You may as well because there is no reward other than an earthly power and authority.

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#39

Thankfully, YOU are reading the Bible the right way! What would we lost women do without you? Finally, our eyes were opened, and we see: male headship. For now, and all eternity. Isn’t this a wonderful future paradise. Forever bowing down before our Lords, hoping, praying that their glory may shine upon us.

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#40

This elicits my natural “up yours” response. I don’t deal well with bullies and am more than happy to refuse to obey them. Regardless of the consequences. Usually I am quite happy with the consequences as it forces me to leave a bad situation. I refuse to bow to bullies, to conniving manipulators.

Having said that I know this is not how Jesus did respond. As I recall He left, He moved on, without the attitude.

It is a bit telling that this issue has to do with “obedience” rather than bible. I feel for those tied to the church in some way as it isn’t like the church has done right by its employees, yet they are prisoners in a sense.

I have to trust in God and see where that leads…

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