The Annual Council has again clearly confirmed for us that the hierarchy of the church at the top is grossly dysfunctional. Authoritarianism is becoming normalized, year after year, at such meetings. The calls for trust, faith, and compliance are efforts at shoring up administrative control over what actions are taken or not taken, and who is and who is not authorized to serve. Worse yet, we are publicly advocating for misogyny and discrimination. Every year we seem to be on a race to the bottom. There is something demeaning and eventually soul-destroying about all of this.
LOL The text refers to rebellion against God, not the church hierarchy nor to the understanding of individuals in that church.
But go ahead. There will be a horrible awakening at the 2nd coming…when it is way too late. :’(
“Conservatives see you as a Korah rebellion against properly ordained authority in the church”
- So this has nothing to do with God or the bible
- Conservatives killed Jesus. Conservatives in this nation were the most violent against blacks during slavery and after…
Basically a pretty violent history. One against the law of God which basically states to do right by God and by our fellowman.
“Male headship will stand in this life and in the age to come. God ordained it”
I take it you are among those who don’t believe we will be as the angels in heaven neither marrying nor giving in marriage. In other words sexless. It could be pretty hard to determine which is the male, and somewhat meaningless then.
But…we choose what we want to believe.
So six unions received their badge of honour. They have all received warnings. Despite what it might be called, the impact of receiving such an honour arouses both positive and negative emotions and outcomes. Been there, done that.
I have to question what the other unions in those parts of the world are doing. Are they silently sitting by, watching what is happening to the truant unions, thinking thoughts along the lines of “there but for the grace of God go I”. Are they thinking that they have adopted a better course of action, that will result in equality finally occurring (if so, what and how). Oh, they probably voted against Ted’s action.
But where is the leadership. What are these unions doing about it?
- South German
- North Pacific
- New Zealand Pacific
As for the tithe that is received by the GC from the Pacific and Columbia Unions, my best estimate is that this amounts to $18m per annum. This is approximately 10% of the GC budget. If this contribution were to decline or be eliminated, the impact is not great enough to steer the GC from its course. The GC really needs to experience a large impact, which in my view requires multiple unions in the US acting in concert.
Somehow I don’t see that happening. The Titanic has only encountered a whale. It is yet to hit an iceberg.
This is what Ty Gibson posted online:
"Every system produces what its process dictates. A Little Debbies factory cranks out Oatmeal Creme Pies. A hierarchy, by its very design, cranks out rules and punishments. This is why it is in the nature of hierarchical structure to resist egalitarian structure.
All outcomes are true to their premise.
All systems create in their own image.
To ask hierarchical thinkers to come up with a third way that would honor all the conscience-bound adults in the community, is to ask them to imagine a realm that is unknown to the hierarchical thought process itself. Compromise only looks like losing in a hierarchical framework. Hierarchy is always a zero-sum game, with winners and losers.
In other words, a hierarchical system cannot produce an egalitarian effect.
The gospel of Christ is the only truly egalitarian idea that has ever been introduced into human thought. But it is too scary to believe, because it feels like losing control. And yet, if it were believed, it would produce the most beautiful community of humans the world has ever seen."
This worries me as much, if not more, than the current warnings. Now I am apparently going to be considered out of compliance not only for believing it proper to ordain women pastors, but also for telling the truth about what science says about the earth and earth history and about LGBTQ+ individuals. All I can say is that given a choice between telling the truth and lying to be in compliance, I hope I have enough credibility to tell the truth. My motto has always been, “I will not lie for Jesus.”
Although, I think he is being relatively honest here. I think he really does not know where it will end. He came to the AC intending to dish out a reprimand, and it got blunted to a mere warning. Then there is the open-endedness of the warning. What is to happen if it is not heeded? I just can’t imagine they have thought far enough ahead to be sure what their next step will be. There is deviousness, and then there is ineptitude, to which I am leaning more toward in this case.
As someone else put it, “Conditions created within a paradigm cannot be resolved from within that paradigm.”
Be strong. Make a point for discussion.
[quote=“Billsorensen, post:34, topic:19195”]"Male headship has not been negated"
Are you sure, Bill?
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Gal 3:28)
Kate, in her list of places there are LGBQ persons accepted are also
some of the SDA church congregations here in the NA Division that
NEED to be ADDED. Some even married couples.
Will those Pastors find themselves standing before this august
assembly some Fall?
There are some of our Universities which KNOWINGLY accept
some LGBQ students. What will happen to those Administrators?
Hauled before this august assembly some Fall?
What about those University professors who believe that to have
a well educated student in his classes believes he needs to discuss
the 6-day Literal Creation AND ALSO evolution materials [rock time
lines, curious fossils at certain rock levels, ice ages, dramatic changes in
ocean levels at different times, etc.] especially of transferring to non-SDA
universities for Master or Doctoral Degrees.
I guess they will have to “cheat” the students who pay lots of money to
learn, but SDA RULES prevents the providing the needed education
!!! Then there are the Theologians who see Genesis 1 and 2 as LITERARY
presentation. Not necessarily HISTORICAL. What happens when the 66
separate books of the Bible and their compilers are presented as LITURATURE?
So MANY Mine Fields for ANY SDA teacher in ANY of our Adventist Academies
I have a better suggestion. Use either Nadab or Abihu. DB compared the ordination of women pastors to the “strange fire” in the censers they were using in the temple. And you know what happened to them.
From some of the messages I have heard Doug present, I get the feeling
he does not like women.
Except someone to be his live-in housekeeper. Bought and paid for with
a $2.00 marriage license.
Did he do Pre-Nuptials?
He needed it, NOW that he has an EMPIRE with LOTS of toys.
Actually, all of our colleges and universities with maybe the exception of Weimar and maybe Southern knowingly accept LGBTQ+ students and all of those that do also have GSA groups either semi-officially or unofficially with administrative blessing. They truly have no dearth of targets on that front. I also have a good male friend who is married to his husband who is on the pastoral staff of an SDA church. I so wish they would leave well enough alone, we do not need the purifying hand of the GC to damage more people.
I get the same idea. He is opposed not only to ordained women pastors, but also to ordaining of women elders. In fact, he says that women should never have authority over men in any role. I guess no one has let him know that no one in the church has authority over anyone else in the church, only Christ.
Taking the money away? What kind of asinine threat was that on the part of Ted Wilson?
Doesn’t he know that he cannot take anything from the members, that it’s rather the members that can take from him? I actually took it from his father 40 years ago right after the Glacier View fiasco. Since then I always made sure that my contributions to the church stayed at the local church level or conference but that’s all. No honey… no money.
I know of several G’s who went to Southern.
One is a nurse working at one of the SDA hospitals in FLA.
He comes back to Laurelbrook every year for Alumni weekend.
Was very popular then. Still very popular when returns.
Actually is the son of one of the former staff.
Another G who was married and on the staff, 2 children, then
divorced. But when he returned to see his kids, received a Big
welcome by staff who knew him. He died. His mother [in FLA]
brought his ashes back to Laurelbrook and buried him there.
Good point. We need to resist evil where we see it, and denigrating the role of women in the church is evil, but we do not need to do so with an attitude. Even when Jesus at times lashed out with harsh words toward the Pharisees, he was soon after, and just as often in tears over their sinfulness. I will continue to resist in this, I will continue to stand up for women’s ordination, but i also hope I will do so in humility and with compassion toward those who continue to persecute, praying that God will soften their hearts.
I would add, that even should TW’s actions lead to his downfall, schadenfreude should find no place in my heart, as much as it is easy to cherish it. We must practice compassion.
I know there are LGBTQ+ students at Southern, but the question is, do the administration “know” they are there? I suspect they do know, but in a plausibly deniable way. Southern often bills itself as the most conservative SDA university, and it is hard to make that claim if you are too welcoming to LGBTQ+ students. Let’s just say, I do know that Southern does not have an open attitude toward such students and many of them feel less than supported.
Makes one wonder what kind of mind control he puts in the
“students” who attend his Theological University.
They go out to many SDA churches as Lay Preachers. Have
seen some of their messages on the Internet various places.
Ones I have seen are quite Militant.