Some Animals Are More Equal Than Others

When my wife and I were first married, we attended a small group about marriage at our church. It was based on Emerson Eggerichs’ book, Love and Respect. This was a New York Times Bestseller with 2.1 million copies sold that had a huge influence on the evangelical world.


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at http://spectrummagazine.org/node/11311
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Hear! Hear! How long will it have to be proclaimed, before change?

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i’m not so sure complementarity between the genders, which is intuitive on many levels, is antithetical to the equality goals inherent in WO…the real issue with a commissioned vs. ordained status isn’t the existence of distinct terms…it’s the glass ceiling imposed on commissioned pastors…if this glass ceiling were removed, that is, if commissioned pastors held the same responsibilities, received the same pay, had the same opportunities for employment, and had the same potential for upward mobility as ordained pastors, i’m not so sure the widespread perception that we are maintaining systemic discrimination in our ministry would persist…

the value in having women pastors isn’t any ability to morph into men, or take on so-called masculine qualities…the value of women pastors is precisely in their possibly distinct sets of feminine qualities and perspectives, if that is what they are and have naturally, that can speak to many in the world, and church, who cannot be reached effectively through typical men…i don’t think we want anyone to feel that they need to be something they aren’t…we want everyone to feel valued for who and what they are, whether that conforms to stereotypes or not, and for what they can contribute…we want diversity in our ministry in order to meet the needs of as many people as possible…

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Our denomination’s miserable misogyny is despicable in this 21st century when mutiple countries have elected women presidents and prime ministers ( and we are soon to have our own female president when Biden’s increasing cognitive decline demands it ).

The United Methodist church has been ordaining their clergywomen since 1956. The American Episcopal church was headed by a women Bishop from 2006-2016.

And although Adventists voted to approve female elders in 1990, many congregations do not allow their female members this privilege.

One such congregation I would visit while on vacation was doing a huge renovation to their church building and obviously needed financial help. Since that year, I was flush with stock market winnings I was about to write a huge check to assist their project. First I asked a random woman member if their congregation allowed women elders. Her response was so vehemently negative— my check book immediately closed. Why would I give financial support to a church that practiced misogyny?

I am informed that our GC president, who should be setting a high ethical tone for his members to emulate, forbids female elders in the congregation of which he is a member ! When our leader is a miserable misogynist, how can our church expect to thrive in this modern world ??

The headship doctrine tacitly encourages men to physically abuse their wives. Another large Adventist church I attended had a very upscale congregation consisting of professional people, many with graduate degrees. One Sabbath, the unordained female pastor preached a sermon condemning wife beating. I later asked her with some astonishment, why she thought this sermon was necessary in such an educated congregation.

She informed me that at the end of the service, as she greeted parishioners at the church door, numerous tear stained women hugged her —- they had clearly been victims of their husband’s physical violence !

This headship,doctrine is abjectly abominable, and egregious and is the cause of the exodus many of our younger members.

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Our denomination’s miserable misogyny is despicable in this 21st century when mutiple countries have elected women presidents and prime ministers ( and we are soon to have our own female president when Biden’s increasing cognitive decline demands it ).

The United Methodist church has been ordaining their clergywomen since 1956. The American Episcopal church was headed by a woman Bishop from 2006-2016.

And although Adventists voted to approve female elders in 1990, many congregations do not allow their female members this privilege.

One such congregation I would visit while on vacation was doing a huge renovation to their church building and obviously needed financial help. Since that year, I was flush with stock market winnings I was about to write a huge check to assist their project. First I asked a random woman member if their congregation allowed women elders. Her response was so vehemently negative— my check book immediately closed. Why would I give financial support to a church that practiced misogyny??

I am informed that our GC president, who should be setting a high ethical tone for his members to emulate, forbids female elders in the congregation of which he is a member !

When our leader is a miserable misogynist, how can our denomination expect to thrive in this modern world ?

The headship doctrine tacitly encourages men to physically abuse their wives. ( Wives SUBMIT yourselves to your husbands ).

Another large Adventist church I attended had a very upscale congregation consisting of professional people, many with graduate degrees. One Sabbath, the unordained female pastor preached a sermon condemning wife beating. I later asked her with some astonishment, why she thought this sermon was necessary in such an educated congregation.

She informed me that at the end of the service, as she greeted parishioners at the church door, numerous tear stained women hugged her —- they had clearly been victims of their husband’s physical violence !

This headship,doctrine is abjectly abominable, and egregious and is the cause of the exodus many of our younger members.

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Please don’t overlook the increasing number of ordained women pastors around the world (most recently Puerto Rico), although there is still much progress to be attained.

I don’t understand what President Biden’s cognitive abilities have to do with this topic, though.

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Thanks, Kevin McGill.

Our WO policy is schizophrenic.

As for wives submitting, I’m inclined to think that any man who thinks this should happen in his marriage:

a) Better already be following Ephesians 5:21-33 to the letter.

b) Needs to be coming up with ideas so dope his wife says, “I wish I’d thought of that!”

Having to raise the issue of your leadership in order to effect it means you’re not leading. It’s like trying to get into a club by saying, “Do you know who I am?”

No one wants to be dominated, and the Bible does not command this. Indeed, the Bible is the story of God not dominating people.

Dragging one’s wife, by force, across bad policy will not make it good policy.

HA

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