Southwestern Adventist University’s Dinosaur Research Draws World-Wide Acclaim, Inspires New TV Series

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#21

What happened to those monstrous beasts which once ruled the earth?

The answer is found in three possible sources – Apocrypha and Ellen White and the legends of the Jews:

Ellen White (1827-1915): “Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood” (3SG, p. 75, 1864).

Ancient Book of Jasher: “The sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all the flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth, all men and all animals”(Chapter 4:18, p. 25, 1840).

Louis Ginzberg (1873-1953): “Noah and his family were the only ones not to have a share in the corruptness of the age, so the animals received into the ark were such as had led a natural life. For the animals of the time were as immoral as the men: the dog united with the wolf, the cock with the pea-fowl, and many others paid no heed to sexual purity. Those that were saved were such as had kept themselves untainted” (The Legends of the Jews, vol. 1, p. 160, 1909).

But these views can only be considered as “wild speculations”. The Bible has no clues as to their extinction.

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#22

The origin of the “flying serpent”:

Ellen White (1827-1915): “The serpent was then one of the wisest and most beautiful creatures on the earth. It had wings, and while flying through the air presented an appearance of dazzling brightness, having the colour and brilliancy of burnished gold” (PP, p. 53).

John Milton (1608-1674): “Not all minims of nature, some of serpent kind, wondrous in length and corpulence, involved their snaky folds, and added wings” (Paradise Lost, VII, 481-484, 1667).

John Milton (1608-1674): “Fold above fold, a surging maze; his head crested aloft, and carbuncle his eyes; with burnished neck of verdant gold, erect amidst his circling spires, that on grass floated redundant. Pleasing was his shape and lovely; never since of serpent-kind lovelier” (Paradise Lost, Book IX, 499-505, 1667).

Thomas Stackhouse (1677-1752) “…that the serpent was not of a common ordinary Species, but one very probably something like that flying sort, which, we were told, are bred in Arabia and Egypt. They are of a shining yellow colour, like Brass, and, by the Motion of their wings, and vibration of their Tails, reverberating the Sun-Beams, make a glorious Appearance” (A New History of the Holy Bible, from the beginning of the world, to the establishment of Christianity, vol. 1, pp. 92, 93, 1748).

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#23

Amalgamation.
Pre-Flood.
After I had been to college it was obvious that for Amalgamation to occur
as stated, between species, they would had to understand all about
chromosomes, all about genes, and be able to manipulate them on purpose
in some type of laboratory with fantastic instrumentations.
I like Ginzberg! Dogs and wolves ARE related. Not sure about the 2 birds.
I wonder if there are any stories of Where Dragons [Chinese, European] came
from and their pictures.
Do other Cultures around the world have stories of Dragons? Some cultures
in the U.S. and South America have designed huge creatures in earth works.
Best seen from aerial views.

#24

i don’t know, tim…i think it’s easier to believe that the job that ezekiel referenced with noah and daniel in Ezekiel 14:14,20 was the job who wrote the book…sometimes the easiest, most straight-forward interpretation is the correct one, especially when it can’t be disproven outright…

#25

Are you saying that Rev 12 is a description of literal reality? That there was a literal woman clothed with the literal sun? (Talk about the mother of all sunburns!) And what did she stand on? Our moon? One of Jupiter’s moons?

And did Satan fool God? Or did God actually condemn Satan to slither on his belly? How many literal bruises does Satan have on his literal head, by now?

When Aesop’s animals talked, he called them Fables. When Biblical animals talk, I’m willing to call them parables.

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#26

yes, and no…Rev 12, like the rest of the book, is a mixture of symbols, explanations and descriptions of literal reality…that is, it isn’t all symbols, or all explanations, or all descriptions of literal reality…for instance, the phrase, “that old serpent, called the devil, and satan”, v.9, is an evident mixture of a symbol with its immediate explanation…to break it down:

symbol = “that old serpent”
explanation = “called the devil, and satan”

this chapter is remarkable because satan is described in terms of an initial symbol, “a great red dragon”, v.3, along with an identifying description, “his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven”, v.4…in the unlikely event that we don’t clue into the identity of this dragon on the basis of this and other descriptions, v.9 simplifies things by equating the dragon to the serpent before explicitly explaining it…

in general, a correct reading of a symbolic book like Revelation, but also some of the parables of christ, will follow what can be considered insider nuances that flow from symbols to explanations to descriptions of literal realities…certainly Revelation’s inside audience would have had at least some of its narrative explained to them, eg., 1 Thess 3:4; 2 These 2:1-10…but obviously, in the age of egw, we are much more knowledgeable than the apostles, or even the reformers, would have been…

in the context of what we are discussing, symbols identified in symbolic scripture can be applied retroactively to non-symbolic scripture…for instance, the serpent identified as satan in Revelation can be used to inform our understanding of Genesis 3, even if it is the case that moses may not have understood what he was witnessing in vision or a dream, or writing about…this is one of the more spectacular qualitative aspects of true inspiration: it isn’t constrained by time, or immediate context, or even the level of knowledge of the person writing it…hence, we can fully accept that Hosea 11:1 is a prophecy about christ, Matthew 2:15, even though it’s immediate context is about israel, collectively, and the prophet hosea would not have perceived matthew’s meaning in what he was writing…

of course one purpose for Revelation’s symbolism would have been to camouflage it’s predictions from the true church’s enemies…that is, the people of god, up to the age of the reformers - which is when the 1260 days or yrs, v.6, expired - would have understood what their papal enemies did not, thus conferring them an advantage, and some protection…this will undoubtedly be the case in the future…that is, the 144,000 will understand what their demon-possessed persecutors do not, which is that the 2nd coming of christ will prevent their slaughter (although one does wonder how this can be, given the ubiquitous dessemination of Great Controversy, and other prophecies)…

#27

Dissemination of Great Controversy. By the postal service. Most of
them came to mail boxes much like the “junk mail” people receive
every week. And They went into the “junk mail” trash cans. It was
a NOT-ordered book, and people did NOT want it. So disposed of it.
Many people in the Pews could have told the “Powers That Be” what
would happen. BUT it made the “Powers That Be” FEEL GOOD that
they were DOING SOMETHING. Even though it cost a Huge Bundle
of Money to FEEL GOOD.

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#28

Harry –
Why read Revelation? To know Christ better!
Revelation is about the Living Christ. About faithful discipleship in this world.
About following Jesus in obedience and love
The Central Theme of Revelation-- Witness, Throne, Lamb.
Unfortunately it is SELDOM read in churches.
Few Christians ACTUALLY read Revelation.
And so Ignored are – Literary form, Purpose, Prayers, Poetry of the book.
It can transform the imagination with respect to how we perceive and live in
relation to God, to others, to the world.

#29

GC dissemination isn’t necessarily church sponsored…there are independent ministries having nothing to do with the church who are distributing condensed (cheaper) versions…and even if 99.9% end up in garbage cans, anything that survives, that is read, can be significant…

#30

I saw a picture of a dumpster in NYC overflowing with them. What an embarrassment that was.

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#31

[quote=“vandieman, post:26, topic:18911”]
, or all it isn’t all symbols, or all explanations/descriptions of literal reality

moses may not have understood what he was witnessing in vision or a dream, or writing about

Moses was confused because God showed him a vision of Satan in the form of a snake without telling him? Isn’t the product of such a process fiction? Jesus’ story of the rich man and Lazarus was fiction, right? And the Bible says that the dead Samuel talked to Saul. It doesn’t say that it was a trick. It says that he did.

The Bible isn’t God. It’s a heterogeneous anthology. The most rewarding information source about it that I know is Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Elliott Friedman (a little over ten bucks).

The same Bible story that says that the snake talked also says that God cursed billions of women to suffer and even die procreating because another woman was deceived (the Bible’s word). Would He really do that? I think we’ve inherited a misunderstanding of the nature and role of the Bible.

I’ve never been comfortable with “The things that you’re liable…”

But…?

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#32

Tim –
but then we can pat ourselves on the back and say “They’ve BEEN Warned!!!”

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#33

Things don’t get much more misguided than that!

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#34

Due to chromosomal / genetic variations in sperm and eggs, extremely few examples of cross breeding between differing species exist.

MULES, the product of a male donkey and a female horse are themselves sterile and cannot procreate to augment the mule species.

So unless chromosomes and genes were different, in antediluvian eras, it is highly unlikely that humans could have created new species from “amalgamation “ —- UNSCIENTIFIC !!

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#35

the point of what moses saw was the fall of adam and eve…his account in Genesis reflects what he focussed on, and was in a position to understand…even though we know moses wrote the book of Job, we don’t know what he knew about satan when he wrote the book of Genesis…from the text in Genesis 3, itself, it’s seems quite possible that he believed the serpent was acting out of its own volition when he witnessed the fall of eve…

egw also saw creation and the fall of adam and eve…her account in Patriarchs and Prophets, and a few other places, reflects what she focussed on, and was in a position to understand…egw was definitely aware of satan, and his history, when she saw the fall of eve…

i don’t believe prophets deal in fiction…

we know it can’t be literally true, but this doesn’t mean it was fiction…it was most likely an adaptation to what the people believed and assumed, at the time…

and this may be what ezra, or whatever scribe who wrote 1 Samuel, believed…however the bible also says that the dead no nothing, Ecclesiastes 9:5, which leaves only one other possibility, which is that satan was impersonating saul, as we know he’ll do with loved ones as we approach the end of time…

considering the momentous circumstances, yes…the fall of adam and eve represents the moment when the human nature of humanity forever changed…instead of automatic holiness, it became automatically evil, and aligned with satan, whom eve chose to obey over god…

along with that change, adam and eve were no longer in automatic harmony with one another…marriage therefore required the submission of one or the other…because eve led adam into sin, submission was assigned to her, and all wives after her…

but notice that the earth itself had changed, Genesis 3:17, as had all of creation, Romans 8:22…the sin of adam and eve was unlike any other…that’s why it’s called the original sin…it’s arguably part of all subsequent sin…

#36

It is of course unscientific! It was Ellen White’s explanation of those strange beasts. Amalgamation also is a dominent element in her writings.

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#37

No argument here, given the millions of species out there.

For some reason I was interested in this recently and looked it up. There are more than I knew about:

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#38

In the Plant world we know that God originally place genes for
humans to “find” and make use of.
Jacob knew about ways to make his animals more of one color
than another. Got “rich” that way.
Since Mendel people have been creating new types of plants.
Louis XIV only had a few colors of roses to choose from, NOW look
at the rose catalogues. Double cherry trees. Ornamental dogwoods.
Lots of varieties of other yard, flower bed, vegetable garden plants
not known to great grand-parents.
Corn – field variety, various sweet varieties.
Tomatoes – commercial ones designed to drop 15 feet with a mechanical
picker so as to NOT Bruise.

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#39