Southwestern Union Cites “Prophetic Understanding” In Opposing COVID-19 Rules

Last month, the Southwestern Union asked North American Division leadership to help advocate against workplace COVID-19 regulations put in place by the U.S. government, a letter recently made public reveals. The union claimed that Adventist “prophetic understanding” meant that the church should oppose the guidance.

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at

If you are the president of a university, especially a university that is part of a faith community that has the largest Protestant education and healthcare systems in the world, you do not want anyone to disclose that your professors and other employees are anti-vaxxers and crackpots. I trust that Ana Patterson, president of Southwestern Adventist University, is appropriately embarrassed by this letter written by the Southwestern Union. She should be able to say, “We’re not stupid. Of course, all of our professors and employees are vaccinated. You are not going to see anyone here featured on Therefore, the vaccine mandate, as it were, is a non-issue for us.” But I guess she can’t say that because it’s not true.

I wish the Southwestern Union would not have embarrassed the Seventh-day Adventist Church in this way. If your pastors and teachers are anti-vaxxers and crackpots, minister to them. Have a Come to Jesus meeting with them. Explain to them the difference between truth and loony conspiracy theories.


I continue to be baffled by those in the church who seem to have forgotten our long medical/healthcare traditions which have always been based on sound science (at least during my lifetime). The prevailing and overwhelming evidence is that universal vaccination is the most effective way to battle COVID and save lives. Our institutions should not have needed a government mandate to require church employees in education, ministry, and healthcare to be vaccinated, we should have had our own mandate in place months ago. Adventists have long prided themselves as being on the cutting edge of effective healthcare. That any of our leaders or members are actively resisting or opposing universal vaccination in the workplace is disgraceful and embarrassing.


I can appreciate that the courts, unlike our Church leadership, have taken a position upholding individual liberty with regard to covid vaccine mandates. I applaud those who were willing to walk away from their jobs rather than submit to forced medical treatment. It is these few who have preserved the liberty of us all, not unlike Daniel refusing the bread from the King’s table. It is my belief that in the end the vaccines will be shown to have been ineffective in ending the pandemic or even at protecting those who received the vaccine. I know many people who have had adverse effects from the vaccine.


I am disappointed to know that such letter was written. It lacks rational thinking also. We live by mandates from the Government. Speed limits take away our freedom to drive fast, vaccines for children to go to school, curfew hours in many counties. I can go on and on. These are all for the safety of the community. I don’t know where these leaders got their training from. It is really odd.


So almost all of us know someone who had a reaction to the vaccine. Many people have arm pain, some have a headache, and muscle weakness, and a few other symptoms, all of which last for a day or two. But I can say the same about the flu shot or the pneumonia shot, or shingles shot…and the list goes on. BUT, VIRTUALLY, NO ONE DIES. Which you can’t say for those that don’t get the vaccine. Your’s and every other anti-vaxxer’s rights end when you spread your infected breath droplets into my nostrils. If you’re willing to stay away from everyone until this all subsides…that’s within your rights. But your going out in public and not taking the precautions of wearing a mask or being vaccinated encroaches on my right and everyone you come in contact with. Typhoid Mary didn’t have the right to go out in public after they determined she was a carrier of the illness. They have convicted a couple of people who had HIV and knowingly had relations with others, of murder. That should give some perspective. And the mandate to get the vaccine also included the option of getting tested every week and wearing a mask, so this who idea of being forced is not legitimate.


The mandate for health care workers did not include an option for weekly testing. The vaccinated are “protected” so what is your concern if you are vaccinated? If anything the vaccinated are today’s typhoid Mary’s in that they are more likely to spread the virus while they themselves show no symptoms. The mandates provide no recognition of natural immunity or the risk to those who have recovered from covid being exposed to an additional immune response from the vaccine. The mandates do not exempt pregnant employees. This is still an experimental vaccine that was fast tracked. There is a difference between being anti-vax and anti- forced experiment participant. The mandates were an overreach of Federal Power. States still have the authority to enact mandates as has been done by New York and other blue states. Your rant would have more creditability if California did not have 6x the daily deaths as compared to Florida. That is science in action. Even adjusting for the population difference, California has 3x the number of daily deaths as Florida. There have been more Covid deaths this year since the vaccine introduction than there were the year before when no one was protected.


I applaud the Southwestern Union for making the point and standing against the SDA church being the strong arm of the government. In the USA we have a Constitution that states our freedom and the current federal administration knows very well that they cannot force citizens to ingest or inject anything by force, so they are trying to get others to do the forcing by coercion within their framework of operations. So far three court challenges have upheld the Constitutional rights and that is exactly why OSHA has suspended their ETS. OSHA has seen the “writing on the wall”. OSHA itself will end up being challenged if they attempt to implement the ETS as they have Industrial Hygienists within their own staffing that prove the failures of masks, and that is only one example.
We do not need to look back very far in history to understand what can happen when coercion is used against the citizenry of humanity. Does Germany ring a bell?

I appreciate your statement. Many will minimize and nay-say when relative facts are stated and referenced to adverse effects from the gene transfer technology injection (as J and J called it). Very recently an open records request was made of Pfizer regarding adverse effects and of course they ignored it until it went to court and the judge ruled and demanded them to show the records. The harm is astounding! I have sent the link to the Spectrum Web editor for review prior to posting it here to thwart the flaggers who gang up on opposing opinions.
In summary, I praise God for the freedom He has given His creation and I appreciate those who support the freedom our Constitution provides for us.


What exactly is the prophetic understanding regarding covid 19?


Golden Rule applications are only for those…wait a moment…maybe it is not real? As a believer in Christs interactions with others and His words, I am compelled to be my neighbors best friend. I don’t need the government to tell that, but, if the government chooses to take the health interest of its citizens as a responsibility, kudos to it. Neither do I need the Church .org to tell me how treat others as it is supposed to be following Christ also. Yes, God has given us freedom, but He also said, for those who need a commandment, ‘Love your neighbor as your self’. So…instead of arguing about what I believe to be ‘my’ rights…


“God values nothing more than our freedom”


So SDA’s, who in the past have unashamedly professed foundational beliefs in such unscientific concepts as:

Creatio ex nihilio
A literal six day creation period
The infallibility of the Bible
That animals can talk
That dead people can walk
That zombies once took to the streets of Jerusalem
That demons and angels are real
That a supposedly all powerful god has limited his direct communication with humans to no more than 50 individuals, the majority of whom would not have known how to light a match
Etc., etc., etc.

Should now feel disgraced and ashamed because some of their leaders have expressed doubts about what they’re being told is sound science?!?!

Doesn’t sound very scientific to me.:rofl::rofl::rofl:


i don’t think there’s any prophetic understanding of covid…it seems to be a purely adventist right wing phenomenon, superimposed onto the secular right wing anti-vax mvt…


You are hilarious. Are you just trying to be provocative?

I was referring to our past of scientifically based medical work. Adventist medical research and care has long been cutting edge and evidence-based. As for anything, there are probably exceptions, but the record is good. So, why turn our backs on medical science now. Good medical science shows the vaccines work and that the more that are vaccinated, the better.


Nice attempt at deflection but you specifically mentioned leaders and members in the quote lifted directly from your comment.

So you’ve ungraciously insulted an unknown percentage of SDA’s and then have the audacity to ask if I’m trying to be provocative.

That would be funny if it weren’t so sad and unsurprising, in a gaslighting sort of way…

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The commenters reply to you is ironic to say the least and seems to be entirely lost on them.

Feigning indignation at the suggestion of being a provocateur when the content they write is a textbook definition betrays their true intent and exposes their level of self deception / cognitive dissonance .


Thus why I am rather speechless at the moment. :wink:


This from

“Essentially, a Gaslighter spins their negative, harmful or destructive words and actions in their favor, deflecting the blame for their abusive deeds and pointing the finger at you.”

Thus, in your original comment, you referred to some SDA’s as “disgusting and embarrassing” which I find disgusting and provocative and said so, in not so many word.

Then, in your response to my voicing those objections, and questioning your skills as a scientist, you insist I must be joking and tried to imply that my comment was intentionally deceptive and essentially provocative.

IOW, if there’s anything text book here, it is your behavior.

Similarly, it seems to me more likely that your speechlessnesses is the result of having been called out for your remarks combined with the fact that you don’t have a rational defense.

Further, for another commentator to say that my indignation is “feigned” is a text book example of “piling on” and shows the “echo chamber” effect of someone suffering from confirmation bias.

As I’ve mentioned many times previously, I am no longer an SDA.

However, while I asked to be disfellowshipped on philosophical and moral grounds, and not due to my distaste for the actions of any person or group of people, I will say that I’ve seen nothing in the Spectrum comments section to make me question my decision to move on or believe that things are anything other than “gaslighting business as usual” within the extant denomination.


I feel like many are afraid its the mark of the beast. I think its too easy that the mark of the beast can be made in a lab.


No…God values that we use our freedom to serve one another in love. Check Galatians 5. Also, see 1 Cor. where Paul speaks of giving up his freedom and rights for the well being of his weaker brothers.

“…don’t use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh (self will run riot), but in love serve one another.” Freedom becomes merely a means to the end of the greater good.

What we see many Christians endorsing, a freedom that knows little to nothing of curbing itself for the greater good, or insisting on individual rights and everyone else be damned, is really an expression of the flesh…to put it in Pauline terms.