Speaking Out Against Last Generation Theology

(George Tichy) #283

That was a great answer. WOW, how convincing!!!.. :upside_down_face:
I just didn’t get how the 90% and I connects to it? :thinking:

By the way, I am not among those who brag :nauseated_face: about reading the whole Bible, insinuating that they are “superior” to those who didn’t. It sounds like spiritual arrogance, so I avoid that.

(Tim Teichman) #284

I believe you have not made any case at all for LGT and that it is a heresy.

And that Christians were freed from the Jewish law by Jesus’ statements, and by Paul’s.

And that Adventists cherry pick key proof-texts in specific bible translations and choose to honor the short tradition of the church that was set up by incorrect readings of an English translation of ancient scripture written for others in another time that they didn’t understand.

And that Adventists routinely try to explain away scripture that does not agree with their teachings, and do the very thing they accuse other Christians of, by ignoring details in even the 10 commandments that they claim to follow completely, but then do not even teach the full contents of the commandments, much less strive to follow them.

See, we can all believe what we want.

(George Tichy) #285

Instead of telling me what to do, insinuating that you know what I did/did not, or what I know/don’t know, why don’t you ignore my person and just present what you think you know about glorification?

From your “suggestion,” I am assuming you have already done some “in depth study” of it. Well, what are your conclusions? What do you have to “teach” us?

(George Tichy) #286

Actually, I don’t mind that Kevin @kevindpaulson keeps talking about and defending LGT. The more he repeats himself, the more he writes “wrong again my friend,” the more he reveals his dependency on extra-biblical sources, the more the sane readers here at Spectrum will be assured of the absurdity of his arguments, and will be able to learn more about the heresy of perfectionism.

Every time Kevin preaches this heresy, perfectionism now aka LGT, we have the opportunity to reveal more about the heresy, so that the most often silent readers can compare the facts and recognize the fallacy of this heresy, LGT.

It’s like with Trump and now also with Giuliani. Let them talk, the more the better!!! :wink:

(Tom Loop) #287

1 John 1:8 “If we say we have no sin, we are a liar and the truth is not in us.” If one of these LGTers ever to say they have reached sinless perfection they are a liar. Lying is a sin, so put’s them back down to the bottom rung of the ladder, and they have to once again start climbing it all over again. But really, in the world of LGT sanctification is not a ladder like we think of in 2Peter 1:5-8, but a squirrel cage of endless pursuit but never arriving.

(Tom Loop) #288

My sentiments exactly, George

(Tim Teichman) #289

I believe your posts have demonstrated with substantial evidence something that no one has refuted, that the more the LGT supporters post, the more obvious their error.

While the idea of original sin is apparently not actually biblical, but arrived at later with other christian teachings, it is illogical / absurd for adherents of the doctrine, and the resulting doctrines relating to salvation through Jesus sacrifice, doctrines that state that sacrifice is to set aside our sin and sinful nature before God, to then turn around and state that they should strive for and can attain a state of perfection of some sort.

Attaining perfection has never been a goal of either Jewish or Christian teachings. Both traditions continue to teach that mortals, sinners, must seek some sort of forgiveness offered by God for their ongoing transgressions, in order to make themselves right with God in some way. There are all sorts of variants on this theme.

Assertions that one has achieved some sort of sinless state of perfection and so they no longer need forgiveness or grace are an antithesis to these traditions, which do actually have biblical roots.

(reliquum) #290

Fixed it fer ya George.
BTW, I read more than 90% of Milton, Harris, White, AND the apocrypha.

(Jeffrey Kent) #291

I have a question for @kevindpaulson:

Is there any other denomination that teaches LGT (i.e., perfecctionism)? Or is this unique to Adventism?

(Jeffrey Kent) #292

Another question for @kevindpaulson:

Where do Ted Wilson and the core of GC leadership stand on LGT?

(Kevin Paulson) #293

Last Generation Theology is really an executive summary of such Adventist doctrines as the remnant-church theology and the investigative judgment, which encompass the in-depth counsel of the Spirit of Prophecy relative to faith, worship, and lifestyle intended for God’s people at this unique time in sacred history.

I am not aware of any other Christian body that holds this cluster of Biblical teachings as we do.

Regarding Elder Wilson and others at the General Conference, perhaps you should ask them yourself.

(George Tichy) #294

If they are not against it, they must be in favor of it!
Not denouncing such an evident heresy speaks a lot about their beliefs.
Isn’t the GC Prez supposed to protect the Church against heresies?
So,… what is going on “upstairs?”

(Tim Teichman) #295

Perhaps then all of those teachings are heresies.

What makes you think this is a unique time in sacred history? What is sacred history?

And how can you know that this is the time of the end when Jesus stated only God knows?

(George Tichy) #296

Isn’t it also intriguing that no renowned, credentialed, respected SDA theologian has ever engaged in a pro-LGT crusade with a loud voice and actually sending a strong message to the Church? None!

What we hear comes 99% from KP, with a few guys cheering for him. His caravan is so small that the dogs don’t even wake up, left alone barking when it passes by.

I don’t really know what he is thinking. Does he really believe that he is going to change and shape the whole SDA theology himself by proclaiming that perfectionism is part of the Christian faith? You know,… some patients do this kind of things, but they are delusional. I am not sure what motivated Kevin, though. Why doesn’t he surrender to the “counsel of God” as it is in the Bible? Mystery!!!

@elmer_cupino Elmer, you are good at solving mysteries. and revealing secrets. Any help on this one? :wink: :innocent:


SURVEY TO ALL: Briefly list (bulleted list is good) the basic tenets of LGT. Please do not regurgitate what you have heard, but rather what you honestly believe LGT teaches. Also state whether you have ever honestly read/studied about LGT or just repeat what you have heard.

(George Tichy) #298

Are you kidding us?
Your request is as if you were talking to some teenagers that had never even attended a baptismal class.

LGT teaches nothing new. As I stated “n” times already, t’s nothing but the old perfectionism heresy in new clothes and with makeup. I have heard of it since I was in college (school of theology, class of 1972) and repeatedly since. Based on their posts, most people who participate here clearly understand what it is, and its perils.

Do you really expect us to “invest time” :upside_down_face: answering those questions? You can’t be serious!!!


So, I take that as a you have never studied it, but only assume you understand it based on teachings from the past which, by the way, you fail to mention.

You are good at wearing out those who go against the Fordian heresy by asking them YES/NO if they have ever read his books, but act incredulous when asked the same thing about LGT. Play by the same rules.

If you don’t want to answer the questions or don’t know what LGT teaches, just dont answer the question.

(George Tichy) #300

If this is the rationale you are thinking of utilizing, then you are on your own.
If you don’t see the difference between what I say to those who criticize Ford without reading him (or anyone else on the subject) and my approach to the perfectionism heresy, then there is nothing to talk about it. I am following this heresy for years, so I easily detect it even if it’s disguised as LGT, or else. Just saying, “I take that as a you have never studied it,” is one of the cheapest shots I’ve ever heard.

Hey, I have no problem with you deciding to follow that stuff. It’s your intellectual/academic status that will be exposed, as mine has been throughout the years also for being clear about this heresy. Do it, keep preaching it. But don’t expect people like me to say nothing about it. If the GC Prez is quiet about it and does not denounce it, then we must be the “speaking rocks”…

(George Tichy) #302

Maybe you really believe all that, uh? Stay course then Tony.

(Phillip Brantley) #303

We are speaking about mysteries. It is a mystery why Lucifer sinned. We call this the mystery of iniquity. If that is a mystery, and it is, then why two-thirds of the angels did not sin is also a mystery.

What distinguishes the sinful one-third of the angels from the sinless two-thirds of the angels? Degree and magnitude of free will, level of persecution, indwelling of the Holy Spirit, character development, doctrinal knowledge? We know of no distinguishing factor.

We do not know why those sealed after the close of probation are incapable of sinning, why an event such as Lucifer’s sin could not be replicated. But we do know that God treats those He seals as if they were dead. Like the dead, probation has closed for the living. Like the dead, the living after the close of probation are incapable of sinning.