Still talking about a subject of which you refuse to acknowledge you know anything about. Elmer answered my question… still waiting for you.
In looking at the Hebrew word tam or tamim it does not carry the same meaning as “without flaw” in an absolute sense, like the English word perfect. It means healthy, complete, or mature. The Greek word “telos” or “teleios” also means healthy, whole, or mature.
For a full explanation: http://www.crivoice.org/terms/t-perfect.html
I think we grow in the Spirit and our desires for sinful things becomes less. Our thinking changes and we become perfect (meaning mature, healthy, or whole) through the Spirit working in our lives. I did a little googling on the Greek and Hebrew words for perfect, and it actually doesn’t mean without flaw, or perfect in the way we use it in English (linked in another comment)
More agreement here, Darrell…
Here’s what I was taught in a week of prayer in college.
It is the combination of divine power and human effort by which we are saved.
Jesus’ role in coming to earth was as a role model to prove a human can attain perfection just as He did. One can equal and even supercede Christ’s perfection.
Jesus won’t return until a generation of Adventists totally reach and even exceed Christ’s perfection.
Jesus leaves us alone to stand on our own perfection for a time.
At any time, if we sin then are killed, we lose out on eternal life. Any known sin can blot out our names instantly.
God has put us on exhibit to other universes so evil can totally play out in all its heinous horrific desolation before Christ comes.
Christ is waiting and waiting for that perfect generation and is delaying His return because of it.
Very few will be saved because the road is so narrow and difficult.
You cannot know for sure if you will be saved.
If you do have assurance of your salvation, it’s probably from “cheap grace.”
There is your list, @historic.
You know, when you don’t reference who you’re talking to with a quote, there is no way to tell…
And i did not mean to imply that it did. Note that I said that one would reach the level of character development that God expects him, i.e., maturity. No one is perfect in the absolute sense except God, since God has never sinned, and we have. But we will not be sinning in heaven or after the close of probation.
This is why I’m not sending my kids to an Adventist college. I don’t want their little heads messed up with such nonsense, to put it nicely. The words I want to use have the same initials as Blue Sky.
College is for studying and learning. If one wants to go to church, fine. But that’s church, not school.
That’s exactly my point regarding how you treat others.
But, OK, here are my best answers:
- I don’t know
- I don’t know
- I don’t know
- I don’t know
I failed 100%.
Are you going to survey others, or is your sample just Elmer @elmer_cupino and I?
Anyway, are you ready now to teach what YOU know about LGTarianism? This may actually become very interesting. I hope @kevindpaulsonis watching closely…
I’ve suspect the reason you don’t know is because, like me, you have no grasp of scripture. 'Tis a pitty, really. But what can be done?
Hey Tim, that was a Beautiful Statement…
Wrong guys to sample to begin with. Tony @historic and Kevin @kevindpaulson could not even agree to the core characteristics of LGT. They could not even agree to what defines “Perfectness.” As long as one needs a “moral compass,” one is not perfect as “Christ’s state of perfection.”
This is the best “strategery.” (Remember Dubia?..) Don’t tell what you know until you learn what their “strengths” are…
Should we expand the “survey” to include THEM??? …
And why didn’t @blc complete the questionnaire either?
Let’s see what the Expert LGTarians will say, if anything!
Certainly not in heaven…
My daughter went to WWU, graduated in 2005. I don’t think she heard any thing like what haarpa’s talking about. I think they had progressed past that kind of teaching, at least as far as I knew of. But, I hear what you are saying. I would have probably preferred a different school as well.
Nope. Students wouldn’t be taught this today. Thankfully.
Historic. I submitted my survey…
Well, that’s good! But, I’m just not interested in sending my kids to a college that can’t figure out if it is a school or a church. I hated that part of PUC when I was there, forced attendance to religious services. They forced us to attend because otherwise mostly no one would have. Instead of making the services appeal to us, which likely they didn’t know how to do, they made us go. We all hated it. We had other things do to. Like, you know, study for tests.
Ironically we didn’t have to go to church and if we did, we got no points in the heavenly worship registry. So no one went. Instead we went to SF or the beach or the valley and played.
Ha! So did my daughter and her friends, and lots of other students. They would figure out ways to get there attendance slip handed in without actually attending. She hated the dorm too. Only students who lived with relatives, or were married, could live off campus before they were 22 yrs old. But, we petitioned and she was able to live off campus her final 3 years. I don’t remember how we did it, but we did.
Nothing gets someone interested in spiritual things like force.
Everyone examines the word perfection and see’s it slightly differently. When my first wife found out she had terminal cancer, she told me that for 2 weeks she struggled with 2 options 1) live in despair/discouragement,or 2) choose the remaining time to examine her life for things that God had done for her in her life and practice being thankful in all things.
As I supported her for the next 23 months, until she rested fully in Jesus’s arms… I observed “relational perfection” … not “sinless perfection”. She made the most of her remaining opportunities to recognize (in practical ways with others), unique and inventive ways to acknowledge God’s presence, and encourage those to whom she came in contact with…
She spoke often about how choices with diet, exercise, were not the most stellar, but she came to peace with it, and realized that her continued walk with Jesus, gave her solace, and her faith greatly increased.
During her illness, some of the feedback, specifically regarding her cancer, was that this was a natural result of her not following all of the EGW health message. I found it kind of interesting from quite a few SDA’s (and not people from other faiths), with the opinion that there “must be sin in her life” and/or some reason why she had cancer. You have no idea how revolting that is until you see it – occur… with no respect or consideration, human dignity, or just plain compassion./g
This process alone forced me to “detach from” the perfectionistic thinking mindset… “live without a mediator” thinking. I just cant buy that she would of “been lost”, knowing how close she was with Jesus, with her calling and election sure.-- given her living after the “close of probation”… basically I observed my wife being sanctified as part of the process of being thankful. It was something she “received”, because she was “vulnerable” to God’s speaking to her daily, with renewed focus, knowing she had limited time. The wasn’t the “keeping the law”, or adhering to some “expectation of compliance”.
The major object lesson that taught me of her sanctification, were the 40+ teachers that she worked with, that showed up at the wake and funeral, and they spoke of her kindness, her cards of encouragement, sandwiches, and heartfelt concern for others. It’s a sad commentary that so many SDA’s were so externally focused on some “perceived” slight that they didn’t get the deep meaning and grace of her total dependence on Jesus.
Isnt it wonderful, that in order to experience compassion… that you have to pass the “litmus test” of not even being valueable – unless you think the same way…
with kind regards,