Spencerville Sabbath Worship and the Unity Discussions: Two Different Planets

All one has to do is visit those countries or to know about the cultures to know that having a woman as a leader means nothing to the culture of the populace in regards to how they view women in general. BTW we are allowed only one comment per article and we are both over this limit. :slight_smile:

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You seem to suspect that the speaker’s sermon was mostly preaching about herself. Well, it wasn’t. Her topic was the value of fasting and prayer. Her personal story was an illustration.


Thanks, Ed, for clarifying that. If a woman speaks, it seems, the audience is extra sensitive about her, her looks, her message, her motives, her choice of topic, her dynamism, and her tone and a dozen other things that come under the microscope. Thanks for the great report about a powerful sermon.

I agree, too, with Martin Hanna who wrote: “The distinction between ‘commissioning’ and ‘ordination’ has no biblical basis. 2 Timothy 2:14–‘Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers.’”


Aren’t all local conference presidents members of the NAD Executive Committee? Why wouldn’t/couldn’t they attend the NAD Year-end Meeting?


The tithe goes to the Local Conference
A fraction of that goes up the tree to the Union Conference
A fraction of that goes to the General Conference

so it is hard for an individual to cut the tithe to the GC without damaging the Local and Union Conferences

What would be needed instead would be a Local Conference action to cut the fraction sent to the UC - meetings capable of doing this only happen every few years - or a similar action by the UC.

Since the GC can’t cause the UC’s to do anything, really nothing is going to happen until the delegates to a LC business meeting order the LC to either send less to the UC, or order the LC delegates to a UC meeting to vote for that org to send less to the GC

Excellent article that is why I prefer a church that values people more than procedures; principles more than policy; acceptance more than disapproval; forgiveness more than censure; servant leadership more than hierarchical dominance and gender equality more than male headship.


Only a few more swipes of the pen on the offering envelope can change that. Mark separately where you want your money to go: local church can be 100% of a contribution which you can silently call “tithe” and the local church is the “storehouse” just as in OT times the temple was on only storehouse. Designations can be made for church school, or any needs you wish. Tithe is a very personal matter between you and God (unless you conference watches your offerings like a hawk).:scream: Why not tithe to your local homeless shelter or soup kitchen (Matt. 25)?

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Reason enough to leave the church, should this happen to you.
Reason enough to never pay tithe, as it happens to others.

More than talk, they threaten their employment if they do not remit 10% of their income back to the church.

Yes. They are forced to pay tithe, and not just to any conference, but specifically to the CCC. They are thieves, forcing their employees to give 10% of their salary right back to them. This was the straw for me and I no longer send them any money.


Has this really happened with the rank and file members? I’ve heard of them talking to church employees (which is repugnant enough).

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I agree that pastoral ordination, as practiced by the modern church, is totally foreign to the NT. But, the greater case against it can be made from its practical fruit. It violates the idea of the priesthood of all believers, by creating a clergy class that is separate from the laos/people. It is divisive by nature, and has turned the doing of church into a spectator sport for many…the professionals do the ministering while the majority watch. Beyond the issue of WO, the whole practice of ordination itself must be addressed if the body of Christ is to function optimally.

But, I won’t hold my breath.




Ask Central California Conference teachers and all employees. Check the 2nd letter to the Corinthians, chap. 8, 9-15 for the Christian’s response.

I don’t know anyone there, but I’m guessing their salary and their tithes are monitored. How intrusive and controlling. But, not surprising.’

Yes, Adventist doctrine and Paul/New Covenant are very often at odds.


That’s not a fair statement. What most Unions in the NAD are supporting is the significance of ordination as voted by consensus of TOSC. NAD leaders are in agreement also.

"While all believers are called to use their spiritual gifts for ministry, the Scriptures identify certain specific leadership positions that were accompanied by the Church’s public endorsement for persons who meet the biblical qualifications (Num 11:16-17; Acts 6:1-6; 13:1-3; 14:23; 1 Tim 3:1-12; Titus 1:5-9). Several such endorsements are shown to involve “the laying on of hands.” English versions of the Scriptures use the word ordain to translate many different Greek and Hebrew words having the basic idea of select or appoint that describe the placement of these persons in their respective offices. Over the course of Christian history the term ordination has acquired meanings beyond what these words originally implied. Against such a backdrop, Seventh-day Adventists understand ordination, in a biblical sense, as the action of the Church in publicly recognizing those whom the Lord has called and equipped for local and global Church ministry.

“In the act of ordination, the Church confers representative authority upon individuals for the specific work of ministry to which they are appointed…
While ordination contributes to Church order, it neither conveys special qualities to the persons ordained nor introduces a kingly hierarchy within the faith community. The biblical examples of ordination include the giving of a charge, the laying on of hands, fasting and prayer, and committing those set apart to the grace of God (Deut 3:28; Acts 6:6; 14:26; 15:40).”

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