I pray that you might find a different website to spread your hatred.
I pray that you might find a different website to spread your hatred.
You dare to blame Israel for the Holocaust and WW2. You take some statements of Ellen White out of context and then dare to judge Jews to be idolaters that are judged by God in WW2. And all this in a thread about “75 Years after Auschwitz.” If that’s not antisemitism by definition, I don’t know what else is.
To be open: If you post another thing like this, I’ll flag you, and you would be my first one. Antisemitism is not an opinion; it’s a crime.
Any dictator like Adolph Hitler who wants to make huge changes
in a government like occurred in Germany USUALLY HAS TO
find a group of people to make scapegoats that the masses will
hate. They do this to keep the minds off of what is ACTUALLY
happening in government.
Hitler did this by making the masses FEAR the Jews, FEAR
He also engaged the masses in extreme Nationalism. From
little kids [in their uniforms] to the older ones in their uniforms.
Another thing a person like Hitler HAS TO DO is get rid of
BOOKS, get rid of the Intellectuals. He had huge bonfires
with college age youth throwing lots of books into the fire.
Intellectuals were fired from the universities.
A huge propaganda ploy was to promote a PURE RACE.
This included NO Jews, or other ethnics in Europe to
inbreed with Aryans [pure Germans]. And “cleansed” by
looking into the family histories of masses of Germans.
All this kept the minds of the masses off the LIBERTIES
that Hitler took away from them.
it’s a real question of why anti-semitism continues to exist…was it because the jews chose barabbas at christ’s trial, and god has continued to honour that choice…is anti-semiticism the inverse of the honour that god originally intended for the jews, and does it continue on because they failed to live up to that calling…
if so, it is indeed a warning that god can’t be messed with with impunity…it seems that if you have the opportunity to know him, and be especially blessed by him, but you don’t live up to your part of the bargain, you’ll be worse off than you were before…you won’t return to a neutral state…
good point…as far as i’m concerned, all evil in the world - disease, war, slavery, poverty, etc. - is abundant proof that satan exists, and is being allowed to rule this world because of the choice of adam and eve in eden…that original sin is constantly being fleshed out in terms of just how wrong it was…and we’re all sufferers because of it…it isn’t fair, but it is the reality that both the bible and egw point to…
Nowhere in the New Testament does it say that God cursed the
Israelites [Jews] for the death of Jesus.
What happened between A.D. 65 to 70 and little after was only
because they rejected the Messages of Jesus – to love their
enemies. And it was the revolt that brought a backlash by the
Roman armies to the people, to their city, to their temple.
The message of the New Testament is that God in Christ loves
BOTH the children of Abraham AND the Spiritual children of Abraham.
This Message is ALSO all through the Old Testament.
God NEVER Rejected the Children of Abraham, even when they were “bad”.
Much like we HUMANS do NOT reject our children just because they do
some “bad” behaviors.
there’s a lot that the NT doesn’t comment on…
But it is very clear that the Gentiles have been grafted into the family of Israel through Jesus Christ’s life and death. He himself makes that clear, and the dream Peter had of the sheet coming down from Heaven further clarifies that hard-to-comprehend principle. While it troubled the Jews, Paul had complete clarity about this.
Salvation, yes, condemnation, no. It’s not our job to pass final judgment on anyone now.
I don’t get it. Antisemitism exists. The Holocaust was one manifestation.
Germany invaded Poland.
I didn’t write Ellen White was antisemitic. I wrote that you posted antisemitic stuff and you took Ellen White’s statements out of context. See the following…
If you post something like the below in a thread about Auschwitz (context!!!):
… then you shouldn’t be surprised to be told you post antisemitic stuff.
yes, this is something the NT is relatively clear on…
but the issue is whether the jews, in choosing barabbas, and rejecting pentecost through the stoning of stephen, brought upon themselves the ongoing animus against them that we see today…is that animus the inverse of what they could have had had they embraced their calling through abraham, moses and christ…other than a passing reference by paul in 1Thess, which seems to hint in this direction, the NT really doesn’t discuss this question:
"For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. 1 Thess 2:14-16.
commenters on Spectrum may not be representative of the overall view of egw in the adventist church…egw has her fervent believers, don’t worry - millions upon millions of them…
@simon Simon, context is everything. How else shall I interpret the things that you have written in a topic like this? That’s the last thing I’m gonna say about that.
@vandieman Jeremy, for the record, I did not write that Ellen White was antisemitic nor do I believe she was. His respective comment has no basis. Ellen’s statements were taken out of context by him, were put together in a total different context, that she didn’t address nor had known, with a different interpretation that clearly includes antisemitic prejudices.
edit: After the Holocaust, one cannot post that Jews are abandoned by God; this is one in a long series of prejudices that were ideological foundations of persecuting Jews. I’m not saying you or Simon are persecutors (not that I’m accused of this later), but in post-Holocaust times we should do everything not to encourage respective prejudices.
“Dad (not a Jew) was picked up and sent to a concentration camp in France (Perpignan), by mistake”
I really like this story George; you should write it out in full.
Yes. and there are many other stories that are amazing. Like receiving a box with food while in the concentration camp when NOBODY knew where he was - and the box had no info on the sender… Or, fleeing from home at the last hours before the German invasion, because he knew the Germs would be looking for him to kill him, As they sure did righ away, but didn’t get him. He was smart! (It runs in the family… )
I had a lot of it written down. Actually, before my Dad died, I sent him a recorder and cassete tapes, and told him to just talk telling everything that came to mind. He did a good job recording seven 90-minute tapes. I already transcribed them. Need to work harder on this issue.
Look at what my Grandpa, Gustav Tichy, did professionally. My Dad worked with him.
Simon, there are Jewish Rabbis that also agree that the Jews brought this upon themselves.
When the term Galut is used it refers to the Diaspora.
“Nevertheless, all these things do not comprise the deepest thing, a comprehension of the Holocaust in its entirety. In recent years, we are more capable of reflecting upon it in a larger way, obviously without making any pretense to fully understand. But we must approach the significance of the Holocaust in a deeper way. Rabbi Tzvi Yehuda Kook, of blessed memory, began to speak about this subject, and we will try to explain the direction, with certain emphases.
Distinguishing Between Private Accountings and Progressions, and Universal Accountings and Progressions
When we encounter a catastrophe of such massive proportions, the sensation which is capable of filling us is one of astonishment at this painful and terrible act of G-d. A feeling expressed by, “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not My ways, says G-d. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts higher than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8-9)” We cannot understand it in any way. On examination, we see that the Torah spoke of this kind of reality in the Parshiot Bechukotai, Ki-Tavo and Ha’azinu: “You will thus be destroyed among the nations. The land of your enemies will consume you. (Vayikra 26:38)” “Then G-d will strike you and your descendents with unimaginable plagues. The punishments will be terrible and relentless. And the diseases will be malignant and unyielding. G-d will bring back on you all the Egyptian diseases that you dread, and they will cling to you. G-d will also bring upon you every punishment that is not written in this book of the Torah, so as to destroy you. (Devarim 28:59-61)” In many additional verses, the Torah describes a situation of near-annihilation which the Nation of Israel is supposed to encounter in the Galut, and the prophets also speak of painful and drastic things. All of these things in their essence are relevant to the Galut in general, and in the Holocaust they are highly and powerfully concentrated.”
Kate, I posted to a site looks to support Simon and VanDieman. It seems that there are Rabbis that do look at the Holocaust as “a catastrophe of such massive proportions, the sensation which is capable of filling us is one of astonishment at this painful and terrible act of G-d.” and a wake up call to Israel.
Caddy, thank you. I am aware of such inner-Jewish discussions on how the Shoah fits in their world view and their belief. However, it is something else that non-Jews enter into such a discussion. And it is certainly something else that non-Jews enter into such a discussion within a topic about Auschwitz, loss, martyrs, and commemoration. It is not for us non-Jews to erroneously blame Jews for causing the Holocaust as act of God on them. This blame game from the outside happens too many times and with evil results, prejudices, crimes against our Jewish neighbors and hate. Shouldn’t we stay away from it?
And it is certainly not for us in this discussion about Victor’s article that has a whole different focus. It’s like blaming the victims. This doesn’t do justice. Where is our humanity? 75 years since Auschwitz. And we still blame them. Why don’t we see…
Thanks for your reply, Kate, and you are certainly entitlted to your opinion as are we all on this site, however I emphatically disagree with your position. We are all the sons and daughters of Abraham and what befell the Jews under Hitler was but a microcosm of what is to take place on a global scale to God’s people which includes us in the future devastating time of trouble. God has lifted his protective hand and allowed castrophy on His people many times as recorded in Biblical history and He has warned us about what is yet to come as you must know. To try to disengage the Hand of God in the travesty of the Holocaust in light of this is baffling to me. As in the article that I posted stated, God was taking a corrective measure that would awaken Israel to again pursue the ends that He had purposed for them. Paul, in Romans eleven touches on this: “I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.”
What happened at Auschwitz is but a part of the overall picture and where Simon gave his opinion on that and the use of EGW’s statements were not out of line in any way. To accuse him of anti-semitism is a bit much. It appears that you would think the same of the rabbis views in the article that I posted. I hardly think that they would be just because they relate the many downfalls of Israels past and God’s lifting of His protecting hand to what took place in the holocaust.
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