Study Compares Attitudes Toward Women's Ordination and Toward Women in Leadership

The point is that the enthusiasm and grassroots commitment so far as youthful Adventism is concerned is all, at the moment, in the direction of GYC. It’s what in the secular political world they call the “enthusiasm gap,” as we’re hearing so much just now as the midterm elections of 2018 approach.

This statement reveals a total lack of experience and information on the issue. It’s not because certain traditional roles have been in place for a long time that they are absolute and cannot change. It’s been usually that way due to male convenience in those times.

Can a man cook and clean the kitchen? Absolutely!
Can a woman be the household’s breadwinner? Absolutely!

Basically ALL roles are perfectly interchangeable. The discriminators will, of course, deny this ability of both genders, but their motivation is not the law of the moral land!

Baloney! The ordination issue is based only on discrimination against women. It has nothing to do with God establishing any rules. Because there are no rules in the Bible about ordination. The word “ordination” (or equivalent) is not even in the Bible, so, how could it be “divinely-established?”

I remain astonished by the lengths that the defenders of discrimination are willing to go to defend male supremacy! And I am talking about people who identify themselves as Christians. Just mind boggling!


Well, yea. They’re millennials that thought it was a good idea to go do the GYC, and org that describes itself as:

Vision. Uphold the distinctive message of the Seventh-day Adventist Church; to aspire to excellence in all aspects of their lives – academic, professional, and spiritual; to embrace the call to radical discipleship, including a life of missionary service; and to be supportive and respectful of denominational leadership while remaining a youth-led movement.

Conference. A venue to be inspired by speakers who uphold the authority of the Holy Bible and respect the Spirit of Prophecy. A place to receive training from presenters who embrace all our Fundamental Beliefs. …

And where last year’s topics included such gems as:

Stealing Lucifer’s Playground: Satan is using all forms of digital media to lead people to destruction. In this seminar we show you how to use it to grow the kingdom for Christ.

Baptizing the Devil: Evolution and the Seduction of Christianity: Synopsis: We look at the great meta-myth of our time, which is that ‘because it’s science, it must be true.’ This seminar exposes that fallacy, especially in the context of the creation-evolution debate which is so central to the Three Angels’ Messages.

Competitive Christianity: Sports and Spirituality: Synopsis: In a culture where competitive sports reign supreme, are they just innocent fun that build character, or do they play a more significant role in the Great Controversy? Discover what the Bible says about how God’s people should relate in a world of competition.

For the Love of Money: Biblical Lessons on Personal Finance: Synopsis: Money is something we all deal with, but yet is such a taboo subject. How can I get financially fit? Is having insurance being faithless? How do I invest, pay off my debts, and save more money? Come find out with biblical principles and practical tips.

You have got to be kidding.

With topics like this, I do expect that those who show up are ready and willing to drink the Kool-aid. Or already have.


Take it up with the apostle Paul, George! He’s the one who wrote as follows:

“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God” (I Cor. 11:3).

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
"For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church, and He is the Saviour of the body.
"Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it.
"That He might sanctify and cleanse it through the washing of water by the word.
“That He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish” (Eph. 5:22-27).

Interesting how you have both spiritual male headship and Last Generation Theology contained in this passage.

Now to First Timothy:

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
“For Adam was first formed, then Eve” (I Tim. 2:12-13).

Let’s also clarify once again that this is about spiritual leadership, not about female leadership in secular professions. I have probably voted for more female candidates for secular political office in my lifetime than a whole lot of fellow Adventists I know who favor women’s ordination!

Spiritual leadership is the issue. And in the spiritual realm, God’s order of gender authority must be normative, as it is that order which reflects the divine image in humanity as intended at the creation (Gen. 1:26-27).

Sounds like an thoroughly nourishing Bible-based spiritual menu, if you ask me! And I was there to see and hear it.

And it speaks volumes about your own spiritual detour from the Bible that you would use the term “Kool-Aid” to describe these topics. If you honestly don’t believe the digital media carries serious spiritual dangers, that materialism is a significant spiritual obstacle for Christians, that the narcissism of sports is not antithetical to the spirit of Christ and Christianity, or that evolution denies the heart of the gospel, it is you who have imbibed spiritual Kool-Aid, not the organizers or acolytes of GYC.

You have no proof, Kevin…just your opinions. There appears to be a trend…spin, spin.

In point of fact, the topics themselves appear to be non-biblical. They subsume subjects such as digital media, science, sports, and insurance and make them religious discussions. It’s absurd.

There is no way you can accurately make such an evaluation. Side note: If this comment and the many other derogatory and judgemental comments to me and others you’ve made here are your pastoral way to bring people into the body of Christ, it’s not working. “I’m right and you’re wrong” isn’t appealing coming from a pastor, especially when supporting things that just aren’t connected to reality. Just so you know.

In any case, drinking the Kool-Aid refers to a) gullible believers who just accept what they are told instead of studying for themselves, typically to the point of spiritual or even physical ruin, or b) apologists who’s positions are unfounded and/or unexamined and who are afraid to question their own beliefs for fear they will find them wanting.

I expect a gathering covering the topics outlined on the GYC site will consist of many who fit into one or another or these categories. ( )

Is buying insurance sinful? Please. Such a question doesn’t even deserve to be asked. It’s pathetic. Many of the others are not much better.


Tim, this list of topics could be found at nearly any other Evangelistic or Fundamentalist gathering. Nothing new or creative here. In fact, they could have been “borrowed” with a tweak or two. :smiley:

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You’re probably right. It’s ghastly.

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Who at GYC said that buying insurance was sinful? I didn’t hear any such statement. That doesn’t mean someone didn’t make it; I know of conservative Adventists who believe this way, though I differ with them.

Since you haven’t been to GYC and I have attended every conference since the movement began, I believe my assessment of those who regularly attend is likely more accurate than your own. And I don’t believe the word “gullible” applies to GYC attendees, as my impression of them is that they are very thoughtful and not afraid to differ with a presenter if they find his or her content varying from the standards of Inspiration or any other set of facts.

Do you fully understanding the responsibility of how it is to be a husband whose wife has submitted herself to him? Have you experienced the emotional and affective spectrum of a husband? If not, I would suggest to go get married, then you can offer opinions. Until then, your opinions are just anemic intellectualizations.


So interesting. Those of us who have attended The One Project would argue the same thing, Kevin.

Again, you can’t have it both ways.


Am I correct in assuming the study was completed to fulfill requirements for a DrPH degree rather than a PhD? Still, in either case, we would expect the research to result in some contribution to our current knowledge on the subject starting with a null hypothesis: A study of the possible existence of a correlation between the attitudes of members of a selected Seventh-day Adventist congregation in Southern California toward the ordination of women and women’s [healthcare?] leadership roles? In addition to description, wouldn’t the tallying of results also require statistical analysis? A computation of sorts to determine significance or lack of it?

BTW…if you hadn’t already noticed- these focus upon negativity (sin) which is fear-based which I could breakdown from the titles and descriptions about the topics. Basic copywriting and some refuse to do the negative stuff but it really works because we humans can be made “fearful”.

Saying that it is “biblical” only means that they are using their own formulations/interpretations of the Bible to these “issues”. One can get the Bible to agree with anything we believe in…the issue is WHY we believe in what we do.

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Well…no. However, there are huge attempts to make it so.

You have heard about the knife cutting both ways? lol

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As Cassie has pointed out, Kevin’s obtuse use of language often hides and obscures the sinister reality of his points, a la 1984.



Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

—Acts 20

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I seem to remember that “thou shalt not kill” is the SIXTH commandment, not the fifth (think Dan. 7:25).

He began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. —Luke 11



Absolutely, if I wanted to take more time…I could “dissect” psychologically what he says and writes. Kevin is fairly adept at public relations but there are very capable commenters here that can see through the ruses. Making “statements” about issues as if they were “facts”- doesn’t make them so. Not having a psychological background is a disadvantage because of not appropriating responding to research, etc. Giving “proof texts” isn’t enough because many commenters here know biblical scriptures. The “audience” here is much more demanding and better educated than many other places and demands more. He runs the risk of looking disingenuous but that is his choice to make.

BTW…have you ever noticed that there has NEVER been one single female LGTer who has lasted on this site or a LGBTer mental health professional? Wonder why this is so…