Ted Wilson's Overreach


(Kathleen Dunn) #49

Thank you, Matthew Quartey, for writing this column and sharing it with us. I am somewhat shocked to find myself living in a time when both the head of the SDA church and the president of the United States share so many unfortunate characteristics. Each of these men is divisive and authoritarian. They are not working for the good of our denomination or our country, but rather to impose their personal point of view within their sphere of influence. Very sad!


(Justice Ogembo) #50

Whatever the merits in the arguments against Elder Wilson’s leadership or stand on the question of Women’s Ordination, I find the language and tone of the entire piece off-putting and completely unwarranted. Christ urges us to be otherwise.


#51

This matter was voted on and settled a while ago now, my understanding is that the WORLD church voted on this matter NOT Ted Wilson or the GC. So why the hate against the Ted and the GC. I support WO but what matters more at the end of the day is the Unity of the Body. A decision was made, we may not like it but it was a democratic vote.
I am ashamed of the actions of many who have pushed their agenda at whatever cost. The racism that I witnessed against our african counterparts because of their convictions, the rebellious actions of those in power to bring disunity and discord has flowed down to members all the while Jesus weeps at the state of our faith.

I am an ordained Pastor, however being ordained was mans way of saying I could do a job, without it I can still serve Christ the way I always have. Satan has used this matter amongst us to digress us from our true mission, If Ordination causes this much disunity, disloyalty and rebellion then get rid of it for everyone. Like I said I can still preach the Gospel. This is not a hill we need to die on, there are bigger issues out there like…Jesus is coming at any moment!


(David Okamura) #52

Dr Tim Jennings in a lecture I watched recently makes this observation: “you have the power to choose what you believe but what you believe has power over you” Applying this to the question of WO, you see how this is playing out in that Ted Wilson is overpowered by his belief and has little to do with any rational discussion on the matter. He has become totally blinded by his belief and is incapable of seeing another point of view. In analyzing many of the belief I hold, I have come to realize that I too am a captive of those beliefs. and have begun asking myself if what I believe is based in reality or do I hold to them because I haven’t bother to ask the reason for holding on to those beliefs. I have come to realize it takes a strong dose of humility to accept that I may have been victimized by what I "believe " There is a sense of relief that I am not defined by what I believe and God does not love me more or less by what I believe. So far as I can ascertain, my belief that Christ died and rose again is the bottom line of my existence now and forever. Whatever else I may believe is rather up for grabs. I just wish we wouldn’t take ourselves so seriously
Dave Okamura


(Johnny Carson) #53

This is exactly what I have been learning about beliefs, myself. I got somewhat castigated here on another thread for expressing myself thusly: “If I’m not willing to question my most closely held beliefs then my beliefs have become an idol and all idols are doomed to destruction.”

Examining one’s belief system doesn’t necessarily mean abandoning beliefs. Rather, it means letting go entirely of some, loosening the control that others have on your life and the resulting impact they have on those around you, and learning to hold others even more dearly.

This is a lifelong process, the way I see it, and a necessary one. Thanks for sharing.


(Terry Whitted) #54

The church has been ordaining women as commissioned pastors for years. I see no need to discontinue the practice.
What we need to look at is the concept of ordination.
Who does it? God.
What is the church’s responsibility? - To recognize a calling/ordination as such.
What about a ceremony? No ceremony is needed. The person has already been ordained by God. But if desired - a ceremony/laying on of hands … can be performed.
Said ceremony is not required. The church did not “ordain” James or Ellen White … yet both were acknowledged as ordained pastors.


(Seth Ellis) #55

I need more information. When/where did this initial vote happen after which Wilson rustled up voted to tip the ballance as described? What are verifiable facts? I was talking about this and someome who was at the AC said this is not true and they did recieve the doc ahead? Is that before the doc went to the AC and is this verafiable? I know facts don’t always convince people but I want to know I’m acurate. If I reference spectrum it may be automatically dismissed as “fake news” so I am looking at both sides of the issue.


#56

If this is true, then the folks you are discussing the issues with will not stomach facts. Often Spectrum and Adventist Today are the only sources of factual, straightforward reporting. Thank God for the Adventist alternative press.


(George Tichy) #57

This is a major problem then, because people who do that either do not know exactly what Spectrum (and A Today) publish, or they are just so biased that they have preconceived opinions and dismiss any facts published by these two organizations.

One think I know: The SDA official media does not publish all the information pertinent to certain issues. They also do not allow people to post opinions that are divergent from their views. This does not happen on Spectrum and A Today, where free press and free expression of opinions are always welcome - and there is no censure for those.

People who spread false information about Spectrum and A Today are not worth the time to have a discussion with them.


(jeremy) #58

i’ve suspected for some time that there’s an informal alliance between conservative adventists and president trump, and your use of this trumpian term confirms this suspicion…i think this explains why so many conversations on WO tend to take place in spheres of realities that simply do not intersect…


(George Tichy) #59

Another issue that you got right Jeremy!!!


#60

These “spheres of realities” have been “intersecting” since at least the 1980s.

In fact, they’ve been doing the Watusi!

Long before GCSA2015, I stayed up an entire night posting material on this Headship issue and its political entanglements and implications.

Spectrum even invited me, twice I think, to write an article on these issues.

I don’t know about any alliance with Trump, but conservative Adventists are so eaten up with political partisanship that they’re missing their eschatological signs across the board.

How can this even happen?

It’s horrifying.

Headship is inherently religio-political.


#61

And liberal Adventists are so politically correct, and ecumenically sensitive, that eschatology virtually doesn’t exist for them in any specifically Adventist way that I can detect.


(George Tichy) #62

You are right again!!!


(jeremy) #63

when have i ever really been wrong, george…ok so i had high hopes for TW until san antonio and battle creek…but so did 20 million other people…the point is i’m still an adventist, even if our church has it all wrong…

personally, i think there’s still hope, actually…while i’m upset with our GC, i think there’s still potential for a turn around…we’ll just have to see how things unfold…i find it really hard to picture a compliance review committee firing sandy roberts any time soon…i don’t think it’s going to happen…


#64

But that’s their goal. Her election inflamed them. Their refusal to even print her name in the Yearbook is hard evidence. In their minds, they must reverse and stop other Sandy Roberts in their tracks before this gets way out of hand. Compliance is a management issue, not a Priesthood of ALL Believers issue. They really don’t believe the Priesthood of ALL Believers–just to a point where gender trumps so policy can be black-and-white, and let’s keep the fuzzy Holy Spirit stuff out of this, please.

Management, dot-and-tittle law-abiding, is more important than harvesting millions around the world: our mission. Why, just look at what’s going on in China with women ordained pastors! It’s so out-of-policy! Millions coming to Christ! Yet, so out-of-compliance.

By their fruits ye shall know them.


(Seth Ellis) #65

George, people are always worth loving even if they spread false information or are too scared to accept any facts that tell a different story than they want to believe. Simply put, facts don’t convince people on either side, especially those leaning towards the edges, but we are all God’s children and worth the time to at least find common ground with and love for.

The person in question though was at the AC and disputes the information. I was not there and I do realize that Spectrum writers have a perspective that is not usually about the middle or common ground facts. That’s why I need specific information about what was in the article. I do not need an indictment of anyone who feels loyal to the church or has a different view of Ted Wilson. God is the judgedes every man.


(Seth Ellis) #66

Awe, Jeremy at the intersection of the venn diagram there are haystacks! I live in MT where there are a lot of conservative Adventists. Their fatal flaw for all things Trump is nearly incomprehensible loyalty, but I love them and have many respectful conversations with my conservative friends. On the internet where there is no relationship it’s probably much less productive, but I will not limit the spirit of Christ.


#67

Seth,

What do you mean by this? Are you talking about the article and reporting from AC? Are you talking about the commentary about articles where opinions are expressed?

You seem to be saying that Bonnie Dwyer is not a factual reporter when she covers these meetings. Is that what you mean?

Are you reading “facts” or “common ground” in the Adventist Press elsewhere? Where?


(Seth Ellis) #68

There is no room for pride in the kingdom of heaven. Both ultra-conservatives and ultra-liberals have moved themselves onto thin ice in this respect.