The Adventist Bioethics Consortium (Day 2)

(Nic Samojluk) #18

May the good Lord reward you for your kind words!


Thank you, Nic. :hugs:

I just picked up the biography of Andrew Michell this morning to read. I opened it at random, as I often do with books, and saw that he was in solitary confinement for two years in prison.

This is literally torture, and is cruel and unusual punishment.

Being tortured gives one an unusual sensitivity to the plight of other tortured beings, don’t you think?

That is, if it doesn’t completely destroy one psychologically.



If solitary confinement is torture, are there any adequate words to describe dismembering sentient unborn babies?

Atrocity comes to mind.


PS: Nic, you have corresponded with my son, but I don’t want to “out” him as having such a weird mom, hence my handle, Cassandra of Perelandra, or Cassie.

The mythical Cassandra warned of the Trojan Horse.

Abortion is just one of the Trojan Horses destroying Adventism from within, in my opinion.

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts!

(Nic Samojluk) #21

In spite of this, Andrew told me that those years in solitary confinement were the best of his life because it was there he found his Savior.

Someone gave him a copy of the Bible and he read it non-stop from morning till evening. Here is a link to the incredible story of his conversion:

“Convicted: the amazing conversion story of Andrew Michelle”

Dear Moderator: I hope I am not breaking any rule by including this link. It is someone else’s story!

Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

—Isaiah 48

It’s totally okay to post links, Nic—you’re good. I will watch the video you posted—thanks. Currently reading Melanie’s biography of Andrew.

I hope Andrew will be careful to stay on message and avoid getting into personalities, and triumphalism.

Regardless of who the messengers are, this is just one of several issues that will sink this church beyond all doubt, in my opinion.

This is going to be very painful to remedy. The babies can’t be brought back, and the crushing moral weight of these acts can only be offloaded by abject repentance. Adventism could never be the same afterward. Maybe that’s what it will take.


Andrew, I appreciate you, brother, but I think you need to pray about where you were coming from in this video. I can’t feel that this is God’s way of dealing with people:

I hope you will feel led to apologize and take this video down, but that is between you and God.

Just speak your truth, let your yea be yea, and your nay be nay, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear.

But when I speak with thee, I will open thy mouth, and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; He that heareth, let him hear; and he that forbeareth, let him forbear: for they are a rebellious house.


Thank you for considering. Praying for you.

Why We Will Aways Have Segregated Conferences
(Nic Samojluk) #25


I was advised by the moderator to use the private messenger method of communication when responding to the same individual, and I thought that I had complied with said request, but I see that my response appeared again in the public forum.

Dear Moderator,

Where is the private messenger device hidden. Sorry, My question mark is not working!


Nic, the old laws have been done away with, it’s now more “in the spirit”. I know that’s a foreign concept here :wink:

(Sam Matthews) #27

I’ve tended toward being pro-life because all deserve an equal chance at life. I’m puzzled by this passage in the article:

  • Landless began with an aside to Ted Hamilton, “Those calls that you get once a month, Ted—I get them every day!” He spoke about the anger that is directed his way by church members who do not understand why the Adventist church provides abortions. -

If I’m reading this correctly, I’m obligated to ask Dr. Landless, “Why does the Adventist Church provide abortions?”

This appears to be an absolutely ground breaking admission! After years of saying that it is the hospitals, separate and apart from the church, Landless is admitting that the church itself - the Seventh-day Adventist denomination - provides abortions.

I’ve never heard of another Church that provides abortions of any faith. Here they are talking about the church itself - part of this “body of believers” as some may call it.

As a tithe-paying member of the “remnant church” which is apparently very pro-women when it comes to the right to choose and equally dismissive of the LGBTQ community, to know what exactly is going on and why. Some transparency is in order.


You might ask @nic1 as he probably has covered that area. Also search youtube for Prolife Andrew. He has some insight on the issue as well.



Thank you Nic and Andrew. God bless you forever! :heart: :hugs:

Andrew, I stayed up and finished Melanie’s book about you, CONVICTED, last night. Amazing story! :hugs:



Beware of Greeks bearing gifts that leave children dead and Adventism with no eschatology…


Cassandra of Perelandra

(Sam Matthews) #30

Wow! Has any of this been factually refuted?


@nic1 little help on
man is 6
killing the least of 6
against the law of 6

Seems Adventists would be the most sensitive to this as self-crowned keepers of the law?

(Sam Matthews) #32

Until today I thought the church was neutral on abortion. But Landless says the church “does” abortions through its hospitals. No other church “performs” abortions! That’s not neutral. It is as pro-abortion as it is possible to be! Why aren’t the members in an uproar? This is shocking!


You are witnessing the fall of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. It’s over. May God forgive them.

It’s time for me to go.

Cassandra of Perelandra


We need an Absolute Compass now more than ever before. . . .

We lost our bearings
Following our own mind
We left conviction behind
Fear of the future
Springing from sins of the past
Hiding the hope that would last
How did we ever wander so
Far and where do we go from here?
How will we how where it is?

True North
There’s a strong steady light
That is guiding us home
True North
In the lingering night we
Were never alone
True North

We need an absolute
Compass now more
Than ever before
True north, True north

Wonders of nature speak
To us all of Your plan
Why would we run from Your hand?
Laws of the earth, just like
The laws of the heart
Only begin where You are
How did we ever wander
So far and where do we
Go from here?
How will we find it again?

Turning back to where
You meet us
We will follow where
You lead us
There is Truth inside
Your dwelling
We have come to face

True North
There’s a strong steady light
That is guiding us home
True North
In the lingering night we
Were never alone
True North

We need an absolute
Compass now more
Than ever before
True north, True north

Richard Rice Discusses “Re-imagining God: Peril or Promise?”
Why We Will Aways Have Segregated Conferences
(Nic Samojluk) #36

Yes, I was made aware of this terrible typo by another blogger. Sorry, I meant 2011.


Is there ever a line drawn as to your keeping membership in a religious group that condones such activity? Andrew titles his posts with “the remnant is pro-life”. I remind him how if that’s the case why he is still a member of this church? IOW, where’s your red line?

(Nic Samojluk) #38

Because Andrew is convinced that Ellen White’s prediction will come true; that the church will repent, the power of the Holy Spirit will do its work, and the Lord will come to gather his people.


Sure it would. Much negative history especially now as can be verified in seconds.

As opposed to the cross and resurrection, “It Is Finished” being enough?

Bible verses in context?

They don’t allow abortions, Adventists do. How do you define “least of these”?


Do you have the same conviction?