The Adventist Church is Led by Old White Men

(Red Livingstone) #61

Your linked article does a fair job of enlightening us to the issue of the validity of the vote. Dr. Rice mentions why the Unions were established, but does not go into complete detail, but one can follow his sources to find more information. It is enlightening to understand why the Unions were added to the organizational flowchart, in the first place. The reason “why” is still currently valid, and even more so as the world-wide church has grown from 1901.

Jurisdiction of the GC is a key issue in the 2015 vote and the 2018 vote challenge. One cannot create a variance or over reach authority in the name of “unity” to create unity. It doesn’t work that way and the results show that to be the case.

(Tony Griffith) #62

I am still waiting for someone to inform me of those verses, from the Bible, that clearly and explicitly state that women cannot, or should not, be ordained or serve as pastors. Sola scriptura.
Or clear, explicit words from EGW to the same effect.

(Elmer Cupino) #63

Kevin has made his choices.


Jurandir, I respectfully disagree with your conclusions.

Yes we are a church, not a country and yes we are led by God. But that is neither the question nor answer in Simone’s essay.

The old, white, men who are in positions of responsibility of the Seventh-day Adventist church appear to be acting in ways that Jesus did not. In fact, they seem more like Pharisees. Jesus raised up the disenfranchised. He called into leadership tax collectors, common laborers - those the religious leaders of the day shunned. The early Christian church had women leaders. Paul persecuted Christians until God called him.

You say the great problem is people concerned with rights, not what is right. I disagree. It is not right for our church to decide that women are less worthy than men. That their service to God is of a different class.

And what gives some men the right to say that one person’s sincere worship is not Godly because it may differ than what someone else likes?

Psalm 150 3-5 (NIV)
Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,
4 praise him with timbrel and dancing,
praise him with the strings and pipe,
5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.

God saves people, not institutions. When facing Judgment, do you think that Jesus and God will say to our denomination leaders, “you denied women the right to serve, or you took their service and didn’t recognize them for it - well done good and faithful servant?”, or do you think he will say “Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me” Matt 25:40 (NIV)?

(Steve Mga) #65

Elmer – Step 3 of the Twelve Steps.
I made a DECISION [I chose]……
Most of the important aspects of life are “I choose”, especially behavior and
relationships – Love to God, Love to “Strangers - Neighbors”, Love to Myself.

(Steve Mga) #66

Eyethink –
And SDAs on local churches become really angry if there is a guitar or a nice
drum set introduced into worship.
Think of cymbols [very loud, crashing percussion instrument]
And DANCING!!! [actually Jewish persons like dancing in worship at times]


Ryan, with respect, I would encourage you to re-read Simone’s essay. I see nothing here that profiles you.

Simone is speaking from a global perspective. If you look at the leadership of the General Conference it is overwhelmingly male. I might be a part of Southeastern California Conference, which has a woman President - the only one Adventism, but she is not allowed to vote and the yearbook that shows all of the Conference President’s she is not included.

When Simone is speaking of church leadership, she’s clearly not talking about the SECC who’s President is Sandy Roberts. Or the Pacifuc Union Conference, who’s President is Ricardo Graham, an African-American.

What she’s talking about is a leadership at the highest levels who is working to disenfranchise what they don’t approve of.


Not all SDA churches are that way. There are a few such as Crosswalk in Redlands, CA.

(Steve Mga) #69

Yes! And God bless their musical hearts!!

(Thomas J Zwemer) #70

If one wants to see Adventism at its best one must read the two books by Ted Heppenstall our High Priest and The Man Who is God. Of course Des Ford has given the Gospel first place in his writings also. There are still many Christians within Adventism but very few in any line of power.

(George Tichy) #71

Tony, are you aware that you may be entertaining an unrealistic expectation?
Get a comfortable chair or a good couch… It may take a while… :wink: :innocent:


The Adventist Church is Led by Old White Men

Does this mean in order to become the new leader @GeorgeTichy should identify as a woman of color? Asking for a friend :wink:

(George Tichy) #73

Only if the leading position lasts for more than 6 months. Which it will not.
My plan is to eliminate the GC within no more than 5 months after being elected as Prez. All pastors back to real work in Churches. End of the party.
Of course Dr. Sandra Roberts will have her name in the YB by that time, and no more threats to the Unions.
The KGC… completely crushed and defunct!


10/23/18 - #6

And racism.

The history of white male supremacy makes the angels weep.

Using the less industrially developed regions of the world to consolidate power in the West is business as usual.

(Tony Griffith) #75

George, I am quite aware of that !:slightly_smiling_face::anguished:
But it should (will) settle the WO matter, not so? And, by extension negate the need (underlying rationale) for any unity/compliance committees.:pray::hugs::laughing:

(George Tichy) #76

Tony, I think that you too should ask for a form from the GC, to apply for “self-referral” asking to be investigated by the KGC asap.
You certainly qualify! :open_mouth: :innocent:

(Don Kevin Burk) #77

“…very few Christians in any line of power.”

And you’re qualified to judge based on ___?

(Kim Green) #78

"and allow that Word to explain itself."

If only It could do that…without the “explainations/interpretations” of others.

(Kim Green) #79

Historically, Adventism was run by “Old white men”…especially after Ellen died.

(Kim Green) #80

How well I remember the mission stories where the natives were referred to as “the heathen”. I also remember how important it was to give our offerings so that they could go to school in “proper attire” (western clothing). Almost embarrassing now to think of it…