One of his “qualifications” is being around for a very, very, long time…
10/23/18 - #8
Tom has seen and done it all, and knows where the bodies are buried.
Yes. And I seem to remember the phrase, “darkest Africa.”
What about “dark counties”?
When I first heard this nugget, I thought it was a joke.
The feedback here in Spectrum and the reactions of various commentators are easily linked to the profiles mentioned in the article. We see Fundamentalists, Revisionists and Rejectionist stances. This is at its heart the source of the angst of the ‘Old White Men’.
Certainly on of the most outspoken of these stances is that of the Fundamentalists. With the results of Ellen White studies from the 1970’s it became obvious that their were unrealistic concepts of inspiration which caused many Adventists to adopt extreme positions (http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/rolewhite/egwintro.html#f6) with reference to Ellen White’s ministry, including reversionist attitudes. The Adventist of Fundamentalist inclination, confronted with a massive amount of new information, tends to elevate an idealized past as normative for the present, requiring a strong continuity (even identity) with that past. Therefore, historical data may be seen as the cause of unnecessary problems; primary sources may appear to initiate doubt about the leading of God; probing questions may seem threatening, with even their asking categorized as evidence of lack of faith. Thus judgmental groups tend to form on the edges of the church and mount a guerrilla war, firing salvos at people and institutions. This fundamentalist ideology seems to now hold sway on the leadership today.
The GC meetings this month have really brought out extreme views from the leadership and others who so desire the idealized past that they grew beards and wore costumes from the period they longed to identify with. Playing on the emotional and social cohesion drivers they thrusted their spear of extremism into the heart of the forces of Present Truth that have aggravated them since the 1970’s when the traditional view/use of EGW began to unravel as a result of objective research regarding her writings use and application. That said I think that consensus on the role of Ellen White would go a long way toward resolving many such tensions within Seventh-day Adventism. All the evidence needed to facilitate this objective is on the church’s corporate desk; in fact, it has been there for 48 years. A need remains in the church for a more faithful, informed, and unifying application of the writings of Ellen White. To that end the church needs to understand the reversionist and rejectionist options, and consciously adopt and promote a transformationist stance.
10/23/18 - #9
Whoa, you said a mouthful, David. A lot to consider there. We could talk a long time on that.
And should have long decades ago.
We Adventists sure were confident about saving the world, weren’t we?
(Kind of like the Scientologists. They’ve got The Technology; we’ve got God’s Last Warning for a Dying World.)
Are you even 99% against discrimination my friend? Lay your cards on the table lets hear… Mere commentry on social media nad these forums is not evidence nor proof that you are against discrimination.
Rights, equal rights for all, are what is right.
Profiled? Only if you’re one of the old white leaders of the church she’s referring to.
Your feelings betray you. In any case, there is no right in the bible for ordination at all, much less an ordination that is a ticket to higher offices in the church.
And there are plenty of examples of women leading the Israelites politically and spiritually, and then later in the Christian church, and that was in male dominated cultures where women had few rights.
The fact remains that only men from the tribe of Levi were priest and men in the NT church were chosen epískopos/ overseers/bishops/elders. It is possible your “timeteichman modern version” says something diffferent.
Yes indeed. The Recent Battle Creek Meeting is answer enough. but might add that I was up close and personal as a member of the Board at LLU for 9 years, as member of the Board at Southern for 11 Years, As a member of several constituencies in the Lake Union and Southern Union. Spectrum puts the cap on it. One could easily put the actions of the GC as a Cabal.
Anytime you use the color of someone’s skin as a qualifier - it’s called racism. I don’t question Simone’s sincerity, but she needs to leave the color of someone’s skin out of it.
There is no need to use racial generalizations to make the point. Someday, I will be a “old white man.” So yes, I am profiled in this article being that I happen to be a white male.
I grew up on the West Coast. Because of this, I grew up in a racially diverse world. When I got to seminary, I was puzzled when the African American students from the Midwest and East Coast refused to associate with me. I valued them as equals, but there was clearly prejudice. If we are going to move forward as a society and church, we need to stop making generalizations based on race, because these groupings reach beyond the intended target group.
Now, this is a superb definition Tom. So finally we have a more accurate meaning for GC: Great Cabal! Very accurate indeed. No wonder the real Church will just ignore the subversive acts of that small egocentric group that aims to usurp the power and authority, especially from the Unions!
I hear you. Leveling the playing field for church representation is a high ideal. But not for the sake of affirnative action alone. Any artificial leveling agent is prone to sadly miss its’ mark.
I support diversity in leadership at all levels of the church. And I celebrate the selection of leaders based upon interest, aptitude, preparation, credentials and demonstrated servant leadership. Above all, I celebrate selection based upon my knowledge of and willful action to carry out God’s will.
If I am open the the Holy Spirit’s bidding, I will select the right leader. God does not make mistakes. He chooses whom He will. My part is to listen and obey.
Actionable intention of this truth affirms my connection to Providence as I seek to follow His lead.
We, white men, were actually profiled by our own white ancestors that abused other colors. Now we have to eat the rotten cake that our ancestors prepared for us. Mere destiny, resulting from faulty beliefs and acts.
Don’t feel bad when someone criticizes us, the white men (I am already old!..). It may be just a reminder of what happened in the past; and still does in many places and among certain people. Unfortunately, more rotten cake!
I hope that those who don’t like to be singled out by the color of their skin do not support, themselves, the continuation of discrimination of women in our Church!!! Which is a huge rotten cake indeed!!!
10/24/18 - #2
That is glossing over so much tragic history it makes me groan.
Demonic racist attitudes, and the social structures they spawned from the pit of hell, still have great currency and momentum in present reality.
To see through “white eyes” is to miss seeing and feeling a world of woe happening all around us.
Not a joke…it meant those places/countries that were “unenlightened” by the Gospel (which really meant the SDA gospel).
GC Presidents have all been White Males from North America, with the exception of White Males Watson, Paulsen and Olsen. In my lifetime there have been three exceptions, to the North American White males, for Secretariat (Thompson, Bediako and Ng) and two for Treasury, Butler a White Male non-American and the current Treasurer (brown) with American citizenship. It’s quite fascinating that the World church has consistently chosen, throughout its history, White males as its President, despite the fact that the increasingly overwhelming percentage of Adventists have not been White for a while now! Adventism was founded by the younger generation with a female teenager who became its most authoritative voice until she died as an elderly lady. She still speaks to the church today despite the fact that Adventism is not known for female leadership of any of its top three positions: President, Executive Secretary and Treasurer. It’s clear from Paul’s writings that there is no gender, ethnic, age, or race prerequisite when it comes to the exercise of leadership giftedness. I wonder if it might help if we went back to Scripture and embraced the gifts of leadership instead of being like the world and have prestigious positions of President, Secretary and Treasurer.
Just curious…do you support different churches or conferences based upon color/ethnicity?