Good points all, Claude. Why do you think that there have been only White Males chosen as GC President?
Thank-you, would love to get it!
Your comments are in line with my thoughts completely.
Thanks, Kim. It’s always nice to come across a sincere soul on the planet who sees eye to eye with me on this super sensitive subject. Your pdf copy is in cyberspace on its way to your mail box :-)!
I don’t understand your point and am not sure what you’re responding to since you didn’t quote me…
Your feelings betray you. In any case, there is no right in the bible for ordination at all, much less an ordination that is a ticket to higher offices in the church.
And there are plenty of examples of women leading the Israelites politically and spiritually, and then later in the Christian church, and that was in male dominated cultures where women had few rights.<<
Me…The fact remains that only men from the tribe of Levi were priest and men in the NT church were chosen epískopos/ overseers/bishops/elders. It is possible your “timeteichman modern version” says something different.
So you are in favor of only Jewish men from the tribe of Levi as pastors in the Adventist faith community? If not, why bring it up?
What alternate universe are you guys from? Did you bother to read the post and then consider why I answered as I did? Guess not. Men in OT & NT…just a clue. Dah.
Jurandir, Herewith a quote from one of the Adventist Church’s early pioneers:
“The first step of apostasy is to get up a creed, telling us what we shall believe. The second is, to make that creed a test of fellowship. The third is to try members by that creed. The fourth to denounce as heretics those who do not believe that creed. And fifth, to commence persecution against such.” October 8, 1861 Review and Herald, J. N. Loughborough
The current leadership is actually in a state of apostasy - they are wanting to enact a reform that will allow them to establish a set of principles that will be a test of fellowship and then denounce those that do not agree with this creed. It is the current leaders of the church who are concerned with their rights to be obeyed. Plain and simple - THIS attempt to control is not right.
Your statement would be far more perfectly applied towards the current leadership of the church.
Let’s revise your statement to envision this:
"I am really sad with this thought. We are a church, not a country. We are not led by man, but by God. When the leaders decide all opinions must coincide with theirs, then they are not chosen by God; they have become a form of patriarchy and colonialism. These terms, used appropriately by the left show us the great problem with our church: our leaders are more concerned with their own rights to command, not with what is right in the eyes of God. Just a reminder from Ellen White:
The Lord never blesses him who criticizes and accuses his brethren, for this is Satan’s work. - Manuscript 21, 1894.
Let’s stop enabling the leaders who have crafted this revolution and who want to turn our eyes from the fact that we are a church and not a country.
Back to me… if we are to follow God’s leadership, then we must stand up against any attempts to put the power of judgement into any man’s hands; God says to follow no man but to follow him; that was the whole reason that there was a Protestant movement in the first place, and the Adventist church was probably one of the churches most to the left of that Protestant movement.
You have the right thinking - but if the leadership were truly Godly, then the mission would be the focus of their endeavours instead of a creed established to allow judgement and control over others. So sad that they have strayed so far from God’s plan.
Does this mean you think the Levite tradition, one of many in the bible, applies to you in some sort of binding way? As if because they could not see the equal value of women in their society, then we are not allowed to either?
Or, that the male-dominated societies of the new testament are an example designed for us to follow?
Would you ignore the women who were oracles of God in the old testament? Who priests and kings sought out for their wisdom and advise? Would you ignore Phoebe’s example, a woman who as an Apostle honored as exemplar compared to the other other Apostles.
Again, since you don’t reference your posts or the responses you’re referring to, no one knows what you’re asking.
It seems you and harpa like to play mind games. I am only interested in genuine conversation. So, to you both.
If one is 100% in agreement, what does it mean if one is any higher than 100%?
How can the vote on WO be from the Old White Men of the church when it was the people of the third world that squashed the idea? This whole essay starts on the wrong foot, and stumbles all he way through. If the author is a woman of color, but disagrees with her African relatives on the matter, it is she who has taken the side of ?. It is the Old White Men who agreed with the Africans and Latins. The Latins etc., were voting to do away with colonial imposition (WO) from the First world, so they voted no.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Just to be sure we are all straight on this ‘1888 theme’:
The highly-successful SDA evangelist Will Pergerson died in a plane crash in 2015, just down the road from where the photo heading this article was taken in 2018.
Will ran into what is often called ‘the 1888 Message’ – often with disdain by too many SDA old white men – and when he did, he stopped being an unsuccessful ‘Pharisee’ and followed Jesus successfully, planting a new church in Minneapolis, MN, USA (where ‘1888’ hit the SDA stubborn ‘old white men’) and finally taking over as a manager of ‘The 1888 Message Study Committee’ and their “Glad Tidings Publishers”.
Will had just been planning an evangelistic series including the ‘Christ Our Righteousness’ theme in the Battle Creek church where he was to work with Pastor Rob Benardo – as he had before in giving this too-long pilloried message – when he crashed and died too ‘young’, but not too ‘white’.
This ‘Old White Man’ considered Will to be too busy, but also to be a friend, and had great hopes for his future life’s work. . . .
Sleep easy, Pastor Will !
So… Racial profiling is okay in certain situations?
No, not really…
This is such a good point.
One African poster here at Spectrum argues that the vote was a resentment vote for actions of missionaries 150 years ago importing Western culture.
Resentment votes from grudges and from continents who still have places where women’s genitals are mutilated should take the day today? Women’s genital mutilation should be first on the agenda for a compliance committee. What do you think, Allen? You are a physician defending cultural voting from Africa (mostly men), where women are undergoing horrific mutilations to prevent them from enjoying their God-given sexuality because it is “their” culture. Who would doubt this culture does not want women in any position of decision making or leadership? This culture wants them physically altered to make them less than men.
Pat, my husband of 48 years brought this article to my attention because he agreed with what Simone wrote, and he knew that I would be interested to read a voice that mirrored many of our discussions. Ethnically, he is an Old White Man but he is not burdened with the attitudes of that shorthand term that we all know refers to a particular brand of old white man. “Old White Men” is the modern expression for the “Old Boys Club.”
Allen…again, the vote was about allowing other places in the world to decide what was right for them. Unfortunately, the Developing Worlds decided for everyone else what would be allowed. Talk about discrimination…