The Adventist Church is Led by Old White Men


#142

I believe Kim we are once again seeing a classic troll behavior designed to get people to engage with him in further convoluted and emotional dialog that feeds his desire to feel powerful…


#143

Indeed, the commentator is being purposefully adversarial and continues to exhibit clear pattern of using inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic message content to start quarrels or upsets people to distract and sow discord with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion…


(Kim Green) #144

Allen is resorting to “drive-by character shootings” most likely because of his frustration and anger with the imminent schism…and he is taking it out on Harrpa and I currently.


#145

I’m used to it. He is entrenched in his discrimination while stating out of the other side of his mouth that really down deep he supports WO. He always has a “but…” that ends up supporting discrimination.


(Kim Green) #146

Yes, and this is the same man who states to us…“You can’t have your cake and eat it too.” Et tu Brutus??


#147

And in his sermon to his congregation where he was pastor, identified us conversationalists here at Spectrum as “fools.”

Yup. Fools.


(Kim Green) #148

Yeah…I wonder how we all got along all these years. lol


(Patrick Travis) #149

Thanks Cynthia.
That may be Simone’s meaning but…it is still a racial, age divide unless specificity is given. What if I were to say “old black, Hispanic or Jewish men etc.,etc.?” How much slack could I expect even on this site without accused “of unnecessary offense” if on the wrong side of a view?. So, My “jest was” I just wish more could give “equal judgment and treatment” to “all sides.” So, I personally hate political correctness and the “politics of divide” and “sterilized desensitized speech” that somehow coexist, as I think that makes for an artificial society where people often can’t say what they think. Things may superficially appear ok while just below the surface nothing has changed. While often we can all be appalled by what seems offensive to us it still, I suggest, is freedom of expression in a free society if it doesn’t create an immediate public danger.
Thanks & Regards,
Pat


(Elmer Cupino) #150

I’ve tried many times to engage Allen @ajshep hoping to divert some of his frustration and/or anger from you and @harrpa but have been ignored. Maybe if I change my name to Elmira, I would get his attention. What do you say Kim? George @GeorgeTichy however does not have to change his name to Georgette because he and Allen have been going at each other for some time.

@David1


#151

Ever since I posted that rejection of the Holy Spirit is blasphemy, @ajshep has been after me. He demanded that the web editor immediately discipline me and removed the post. The web editor refused saying my post was a perfectly defensible and respectful opinion.

Allen sees the supporters of WO as arrogant, holier-than-thou, imposing power moves on the “weak.”

In his defenses of anti-WO, Allen does not engage about the Holy Spirit’s Pentecost where tongues of fire fell on men and women or the Priesthood of ALL Believers. His argument is cultural tyranny. But he never engages on the gifts of the Spirit and the Spirit’s right to gift whomever He chooses.

I’m always comforted to know this: he admitted that his wife is a believer in WO!!! Praise the Lord!


(Kim Green) #152

I say…LOL! I can guarantee if you become Elmira that you can expect more “attention” from Dr./Pastor Allen Shepherd, including “Georgette”.:rofl: BTW…I have seen pics of both of you and both look MUCH better as men! :wink:


(Allen Shepherd) #153

I did nothing of the sort! I think he removed the two on his own.

I never said this was not so, just that women don’t have to be ordained to carry out the Spirit’s work. Do you really think they do? Is ordination necessary to do what the Holy Spirit says to do? Will only commissioning keep him for acting??

I think the Holy Spirit can do as he pleases regardless of ordination. I had women in my congregation that were very effective. They did not seek it, and I even tried to put some in greater positions of responsibility, but their sisters would not allow it. (third world thinking)

Youse guys really have not figured me out. I really really don’t care about WO. I really really care about avoiding schism. The vote is really rally hard to negate, and the third world is not going to back down. So… that leaves trying to convince you to take a kinder gentler approach. It is the only hope. You by and large refuse, in spite of all my efforts.

I think you, Harpa, are a sweet-heart. You are always gentle about your rebukes etc. Some of the rest are not so kind. I am sorry if you feel I have singled you out. You are passionate, and probably step a bit to far, but are good minded, as is Elmer (Elmira), Cassie and George (see, George, I don’t hate you!) and many others. Some however are much sharper, more judgmental and angry about the matter.

I keep trying to leave this site, but always take a peek and get involved again. Must take the cure…


#154

Indeed in fact he always avoids the simple question with tangents and hubris, I have yet to see him answer the question at all but rather a tangent and avoidance.

Does the Holy Spirit call who He deems fit for service to God?
Y__ or N__

Does the SDA church have the authority to create a policy that over rules the Holy Spirit choice of spiritual gift distribution to believers on the basis of gender or create sub-classes based on gender?
Y__ or N__

Ordination is a human construct and by definition used to publicly recognize one called by God to His service in ministry. What spirit are we following when we create policies that say we will not recognize the ones God calls or do the same by creating sub classes based on gender?


#155

Allen, it was before we changed the commenting platform and had to establish our new accounts. You were brand new and shocked with the discussion. I probably had a different account name on that platform (UpWithWomen, I think).

This is clear from all your posts, Allen. You want to avoid a split at all costs. You’ve been very direct about that. Don’t you think the NAD has been kind? It’s the generous hand that feeds the operational costs of the GC and has built and supported the worldwide work? It feels the other way around to many. Although the NAD will continue to generously support our brothers and sisters around the world, the world church and our brothers have decided to put cultural restraints on our attempts to grow the church in NAD through all member involvement.

Sorry we don’t see things similarly. But I’m glad you are here, Allen. It keeps things lively.


(George Tichy) #156

Allen @ajshep is doing nothing new or unusual. He has behaved this way for a long time. If you read what he posted in the past few months, you will notice that he has just being repeating the same ideas over and over again. Always defending/excusing discrimination of women.
Geeezzz, I wish he would change the issue! But I bet he won’t.
@David1 @harrpa @elmer_cupino


(George Tichy) #157

… who in a sermon called us all “fools” and we are still talking to him. Well, this may indeed be foolish on our part… :wink:


(George Tichy) #158

LOL… I just remembered today, while doing some gardening, that long time ago there was a guy here that called you Dr. Cupano, remember?

Now, “Elmira?” Give me a break!!!.. LOL


(Allen Shepherd) #159

Hey, lets talk about er, ah, YACHTING!! My dad had a Hoby Cat, not actually a yacht, but, close. Great fun to sail. Get a hull flying, breeze at your back, sun in your face. But about women being Captains…


(Allen Shepherd) #160

Or how about Irises, the flower. I have been planting them for a few years now, and love their beauty, they are so so gorgeous, and have petals like deep satin, and come in so many colors, 30,000 I understand. I just have a few, but love them so much. I take them to my science class to show the kids. Wonderful flowers, but only last for about 3 weeks at most. I am a “fool” for them!


(George Tichy) #161

Really? I must have missed this detail. Well, as a SDA Pastor, Allen @ajshep cannot reject the Holy Spirit’s existence. Do you think he is anti-Trinitarianism? That would be cause for “grave consequences.” A red flag for Ted’s KGC, Kompliance Gestapo Commando!