The Church Does Not Treat Women Well. Why?

The worlds of men and women were split in the past and had their own structural hierarchy and responsibilities for which both were kept in check. The way we have national respect towards military… that was respect towards men who built, procured for, and defended the tribal cultural boundaries. Women managed these. So, women had plentiful context for freedom of choice, but couldn’t direct things they were not involved in, since politics overlapped with military and societal structure.

Plus, life was generally more harsh to both men and women. Try going about life with no modern amenities for a month, and perhaps you’ll get closer to judging the Biblical context from the POV of Biblical context.

Given the above, the modern context freed women, and naturally it’s more convenient and empowering. Naturally, many women find extended setting for fulfillment of their talents… and they should, and I do think we should support them as men.

In the modern setting it’s difficult to understand that cultural context.

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There is evidence everywhere that women have more power than they realize. Accept for maybe the “sex strike”. It sort of didn’t work, ah, for some reason…

This is one of the crucial things that is largely forgotten in today’s western world. In the agrarian world, strength is far more important to live. So the cultures would reflect that. Can’t help but see men have an advantage in strength. So women were very much for breeding, naturally preferred was the breeding of sons. Women tended to die a lot during childbirth, thus multiple wives helped a lot. When you expect that all these life situations should be ignored and life is like it is in the modern western world then it is easy to poo-poo the past as just backward patriarchal nonsense. But if they indeed had good reasons for their actions and attitudes it is much harder to pretend that it is just sexism. It is a much different world and that world was radically changed with the industrial revolution and the technology which serves to negate the need for physical strength.


WO may not be a moral obligation but the principle underlying the WO that every believer be given the chance to serve the Lord IS a moral obligation.

What have you been breathing that compels you to believe that pornography is the cause to “a corrupt and evil generation?” Please elucidate!

Because the story is not to be taken literally. Anyone who takes the Genesis story literally as described in the Bible will have to resort to mental gymnastic and calisthenics. It is not the manifest content but the latent content that is important in the Genesis story. The lessons are on the development of our relationship with God and its trajectory.


Allen, do you think that porn is only an issue in the West? Wherever there is a internet connection there will be some who view it…probably more where it is “prohibited”. Prohibition didn’t stop people from drinking- it just drove it underground.


Yes. There are very few countries in the world where there is NOT internet
access. And this access is available in a person’s living quarters in a huge
number of countries, including Russia, Asia, South America, Mexico, others
where we would consider them either to be government repressed or too
“poor” to have home access.
Haven’t seen much from Islamic Religion controlled countries.

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"The lessons are on the development of our relationship with God and its trajectory."

And this “principle” is completely lost on those who must have a “Literalistic” and/or “Fundamentalistic” approach to the Bible. The “lessons” are lost in the maze of “theology”.


Check this article out, Steve:


Remember that the greatest percentage of babies born to unwed mothers are in the Bible Belt…:grin:

Want something to grow or spread…suppress it!!!


I had heard about that but that is all.

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what does that indicate? only that they have less abortions really.

Why do they have less abortions, Ron?

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The Talmund is Jewish teachers speculating on these stories. Maybe that is the purpose. Some great wisdom in those commentaries. Some not so great but maybe as a jumping off point that is the purpose after all.

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Generally religious people feel less inclined to murder their babies, something about thou shalt not kill.

Yes, there are religious societal pressures…which is one big reason that there are generally less elective abortion clinics, etc. But, obviously, there isn’t enough pressures to keep unmarried people from having sex to produce said babies…which was my point.


Kim –
There ARE Financial Rewards and Awards to the mother.

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What do you see those to be, Steve?

These Awards are Government Funds in different ways – Housing
Subsidies, Food Stamps, money per each child.
However the draw back on all this is it keeps the “family” in poverty
and doesn’t encourage becoming financially independent of the Government.
I have seen situations over the years – here in Ga and TN where the “boy
friend” lived with the woman and was supported by the funds that were to be
used for the child.
I have seen it be generational and leading to generational poverty. Which is
very sad to view.


If we put what the Bible actually says together with Ellen White’s writings on the same topic it easily becomes clear why God put Adam and Eve on this planet.

The ideal EGW book, a compilation, to look at is, ‘The Truth about Angels’. The important statements that we need are within the first 50 pages.If we read this and the Bible together we will find the following series of events. After “ages” of happy existence with the angels and “other worlds” the angel Lucifer firmly decided to rebel against God. God knew this, but from this point of Lucifer’s decision onward a long time passed before it was practical for God to expose what Lucifer was up to to the rest of creation. In the meantime Lucifer was spreading his propaganda.

Eventually there was a climatic meeting before God with all the angels. This resulted in Lucifer and his angels being banned from entering God’s tabernacle. Lucifer could still go to the entrance speak out to passing holy angels.

God decided that the places left vacant by the fallen angels must be refilled. To do this God put two people made in His image on this planet. He told them the fill the earth with people. All these people would be at first a little lower than the angels (Ps 8:5), but when ready they would all be made equal to the angels (Luke 20:36), Once this is done all of this earth’s sinless inhabitants would be taken to God’s Tabernacle to fill in the vacancies there.

This plan was severely disrupted by the fall of Adam and Eve. However, it will still be accomplished in difficult circumstances such as what we have been experiencing for the past 6000 years. Please note that if Adam had stayed true to the truth, only Eve would have been affected. Jesus still would have come to die in order to save her and bring her back to Adam in order to resume their original purpose.

This context is why we have male and female. The two would work together to bring up a group of people who will go to God’s Tabernacle.

No prizes for guessing how Satan and his angels feel about all this. No prizes for guessing how Satan has been trying to prevent human reproduction and to destroy those who do get born.

Another purpose had in the original Genesis creation plan was to show to the universe a working model of the relationship between God and His creation. We see this in the relationship between the male and the female and the family and between the mother and her child. Neither the male nor the mother are God, they simply help everyone see things from God’s viewpoint. Obviously the sin event greatly confused things, but if we can keep in mind the above overview of creation we will be able to sort out the various issues.

So you see that the woman is actually the most important person as she is the one that actually gives birth to children, who also go on to have children. In the sin situation God had to adapt the circumstances so that the original purpose keeps operating and then to also save everyone from death. An additional circumstance is that there is Satan and his angels continuously trying to destroy everyone.

Jesus said that after He comes there will be no more marriages. He only wanted enough people to replace the fallen angels, not to breed forever. Whether sexual differences will disappear at this time and we all look the same or not we can only speculate, but it would seem logical.

And multiple wives made multiple births to keep the armies supplied with troops for warfare.