The Church Triumphant: Author Interview with Mark Finley


(Steve Mga) #42

It doesn’t say the SIZE of the plot of land that was theirs specifically. I would think
it would not be TOO huge. At least to begin with. They could develop it to compliment
their personalities with varieties and placement of plants.
In the Hebrew God said it was “good, good”. So was NOT perfect.
To have been declared Perfect, the Hebrew would have had to say,
“good,good,good”. Good 3 times. God wanted Adam and Eve to continue
creating and make it “Perfect”.


#43

To give humans something to do, creative and fulfilling? To grow their own food?


(Steve Mga) #44

Part of Humans “creating” is Playing with Genes and Genetics.
All the “hidden” things that God put in the Gene sequences. That
is why God developed “male and female”. To allow for surprise
variations.
Just look at the cultivated plant industry. Beginning with “wild”
parents and developing generations that have no resemblance.
Fruits, vegetables, flowers, grasses, All these that were unknown
500 to 1000 years ago. We take for granted now days when we
look at plant catalogs.
Look what we can do with the animal kingdom. I was in a local
furrier some time back [a friend creates fur coats] and noticed the
many colors of the mink coats. I asked if they dyed the furs to get
them like that. He said, NO! They are BRED for those colors.
Think of just cats, dogs, farm animals in breeding. Prize BULLS
sire female cows and do so in order to have maximum milk
production. Cow magazines keep tract of the Bulls and their
females offspring in the amount of milk production. And sales
are based upon these facts and figures. GENETICS. Human
created working with God.


(milton hook) #46

The interview is an unashamed sales pitch.
Yes, the title says it all. Triumphalism at its best. Scholarship at its worst.
No thanks. I won’t be buying the book. Got more to do in my leisure time.


(George Tichy) #47

You can always read that great book, the Des Ford biography. You may like it… :laughing:


#48

“There are also times that God calls us to surrender cherished positions for the good of the entire body of Christ.”

A phrase used to undermine principles for thousands of years.
A phrase used to justify slavery.
A phrase used by the Pharisees against Jesus (or at least a paraphrased version).

Pastor Finley. How long will you continue to insist that women who are called by God to minister have less worth and value than men? How long will you support policies that are in practice much different than how Jesus treated people?

You think that the Church is triumphant. I’d suggest that the Church and it’s leadership is an example of a group of people who have lost their way and are busy seeing how many people they can take with them.

Pastor Finley, when Jesus asks the question as in Matt: 25:40, how you treated the least of these - and he means women pastors, or LGBTQ - how will you respond? Will it be with your belief in the triumphant nature of the 28 fundamental belief’s the primacy of unity? Or will be struck dumb by your recognition that Jesus didn’t call us to 28 fundamental belief’s but rather by John 13:34 - “A new commandment I give you: love one another. As I have loved you, you must love one another.”


(Steve Mga) #49

I wish Mark had stayed on the “campaign trail” and on TV evangelism.
Being in Silver Springs has not been good.


(milton hook) #53

George, I’ve actually read the book. I especially like the mini-biography of the author.


(Steve Mga) #55

Regarding the 7 churches as being historic in a Time Line of History.
Look at the Church of Philadelphia –
You will notice that the Church of Philadelphia ACTUALLY DOES continue
on and Philadelphia is the ONE that is around at the 2nd coming of Christ.
Laodicea experience is just a parenthesis in the church time of Philadelphia
by some.
The TRUE CHURCH behavior by the Philadelphians continues on to the coming
of Christ and are the ones READY for Him.
Laodiceans have to MOVE to Philadelphia so to speak.

In church all we hear about is “You are Laodiceans – and then describe.”
Nothing is ever said about becoming Philadelphians and being ready for Christ’s
return.


(Steve Mga) #56

Pharmacology around the early part of 1900 is NOT the same as it is now.
The Food and Drug Administration was organized by the US Government in
1905.
Heroine, Morphine, Cocaine were standard items one could purchase off the
shelf in “drug stores.”
Coca-Cola – It ACTUALLY had Cocaine in it. Later changed to Caffeine due to
drug laws to get similar stimulating effect.
Heroine of course if very addictive with just a few “hits”.
But Morphine, Codiene, are such blessings post injury in a hospital setting.
When I had my By-pass surgery a little pain med was good for rehab. Home in
6 days.
When I had abdominal surgery for a Hepatic Artery Aneurysm, an Epidural for
3 days kept me pain free and I could ambulate about the next day. Home in 5
days.
We have to be VERY CAREFUL about poo-pooing the need for Pharmacology
in medicine.
It wasn’t till early 1920’s had Banting and Best with treatment for Diabetes.
Dr. Kellogg talks about Diabetes treatment in his 1900 book that was banned by
Ellen. He had little understanding, and poor treatment to offer at that time. But was
the best information of the times.
Ether was discovered late 1840’s by a Southern MD. But he almost got lynched by
a mob of citizens because they said it was “unnatural”. So when the war of 1860s
came they had nothing for wound care, or amputation procedures, or for closing
wounds. Nothing but Alcohol, and that tends to thin the blood.
Now the United States is in a MESS with Measle outbreaks in a number of places
because so many refused to get their MMR vaccines. It is very contagious. Can
stay in the air 2 hours after the person with it leaves the room. Can stay on counter
tops in the library for several hours. Can have horrible side effects.
Don’t forget the Polio problems before Salk and Sabin of the 1950s, early 1960s.


(George Tichy) #59

I hope you didn’t become obsessed with the book reading it several times, over and over… :wink:
By the way, I will have the pleasure of reading it soon. Already paid for it a few weeks ago, but no book in the mail yet. I hope AToday did not go bankrupt… lol


(George Tichy) #60

Steve, not everyone is inclined to understand the clear, simple principles you are advocating. It just makes way too much sense.

I really have a problem with people who denigrate LLU. It is a beacon light in the region and in the country, respected by the medical community and saving thousands of lives every year. It’s a fine medical school and hospital. It’s a shame that some people would advocate drinking lemon grass tea instead of having prostate cancer treated by the Proton center. :roll_eyes:


(David) #108

The strange thing is, nobody ever asks the question, “What are the gates of hell”?. As if Christ is simply making a meaningless nebulous statement about hell, like the one you hear often about hell freezing over.

What I hear Christ saying is that:

  1. For a time the gates of hell excercise power over the church but ultimately the Church prevails.

  2. The gates of hell are real and it behooves us to know what they are. How can we fight an enemy that we don’t know?


(George Tichy) #111

I have it, and if I remember correctly, it was Elmer who suggested it to me, or even sent me a link to a pdf. Great book.
@elmer_cupino

In which of these states do you think a person is more prone to copy texts from other authors’books? …


(Steve Mga) #170

My Jewish friends just completed the Passover holidays. Actually, I enjoyed
celebrating with them.
Now counting the Omer days until Pentecost.
I have the privilege of 2 Celebrations at the end of 50 days.

  1. With my Jewish friends.
  2. With my Episcopalian friends as we celebrate the Birthday of the
    Christian church. Red balloons in the worship space, red streamers from
    the ceiling fans.
    Every one is encouraged to wear red, yellow, orange to church that day.

(George Tichy) #171

And what about your SDA friends Steve? Do you enjoy something with them as well?.. :innocent:


(Steve Mga) #176

SDAs I have been to church with all my life have not seemed to
have as much fun in worship as their Sunday counterparts. I have
enjoyed being introduced to alternative forms of worship and
religious holiday celebrations.
I enjoy the friendships I have had at SDA. It was more active here
in Macon when I first joined than is now. Some of those leaders moved
away or died, and no one has taken their place. I do enjoy the alternative
Sabbath School classes than just reading the Quarterly again.
As you probably know non-SDAs seem to be able to ask Questions of the
Bible and read a wide variety of pastors and Bible scholars who ask
Questions and attempt at answers that SDA authors don’t ask and wrestle
with.
So it is MOSTLY having a more broadening Christian Education, Religious
Education that I have been allowed to enjoy and participate in. It is True
that I sometimes see things that are beyond SDA tradition. But seeing some
words of the Bible having more than one answer, one way of looking at them,
has been OK and has not been confusing. But it does make it difficult to
discuss these revelations with my SDA friends. I can do so with my Sunday
friends though and have good conversations.


(David) #200

I think I just felt an earthquake. Is every one else ok?


(George Tichy) #201

I felt it yesterday! The shaking was pretty intense. It even shook four of my posts out of the conversation about earthquakes… LOL…


(Steve Mga) #202

Milton – Did the Bio mention being at Wildwood Institute in GA [or TN]?
[the property is in both GA and TN] I met Mark when he was doing pastoral
work there in his younger years. And have kept up with his career since then.