The Difference Between Pride and Pride

Tom, I too would prefer someone younger. What we are facing it’s having either him, or Trump. I had other names during the primary, but it is what it is. I believe that Biden can put together a nice team and have a decent government. The exact opposite of Trump. But this is just my personal opinion and I understand that other people have a different opinion on this issue. And this is OK.


You really got me and my failure to reread a post. Your come backs were great! So funny!

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I think masks are a joke. Menards now require them to shop at the store. I had to buy one to pick up some item.

The problem is that everyone fiddles with their mask, pulls it down, touches it, adjusts it etc. Such actions make the mask useless, and even worse than not wearing one. Every touch you make on the mask transfers the virus to your hands and then to anything you touch. just breathing will transfer less. I’ve watched the people at Menards. Just go in a watch!

So, I think they are silly. People do not use them properly, and that moves the concentrated material on the mask to other things. Not useful.

allen, i have to tell you, sometimes i can’t believe you’re actually a medical dr who made it through medical school…the people who are wearing masks are usually also wearing disposable surgical gloves, and are extra-vigilant about not touching their faces, or standing within a radius of 2 metres of anyone else…they’re the cream of the crop when it comes to intelligent, responsible behavior…what you’re describing is something i simply haven’t seen…

i think you’re now so determined to vindicate anything remotely associated with trump, you’ve left any ounce of common sense and perception far behind…in fact you’ve gotten worse over the three yrs trump has been president…yet trump is an unindicted co-conspirator in a crime for which michael cohen is serving time…practically all of trump’s closest buddies are serving time…and mueller didn’t charge trump with obstruction of justice purely because he’s a president, but has left strong hints that an indictment is being kept under seal for the minute he leaves office…letitia james, NY’s attorney general, is also hinting that she’s got big surprises waiting for trump when he leaves office…he’s obviously hiding his taxes in order to evade criminal charges…he’s also the ex-owner and operator of a university that was pure fraud…even his charity has been charged with fraud, and ordered to close…he’s told 16,000 documented lies since taking office… 25 women, including his first wife, have credibly charged him with everything from harassment to rape…

i mean at some point you have to open your eyes, if not for your own sake, at least for you congregations’ sake, who may have individuals who look up to you…


Cream of the Crop??

You are right, I am an MD, and so have observational skills. I know about the masks. I see the casual practice.

Gloves are another problem. Unless you are constantly changing them, they are just like your hands, a plastic covering like you skin, but that you can remove. One has to change them constantly, and or, wipe them off after each touch!

I see the cashiers at Menards with gloves and masks, touching everything!

Perhaps you are quarantining yourself and do not go out. I go out almost daily. I have to care for my apartments and it requires products that I get there. The staff are required to wear masks, but they and the general public do not do what they are supposed to. And if you are wearing a mask all day, day after day, it is really hard to do it properly.

The mask thing has nothing to do with Trump. As far as he goes, I won’t defend him morally. But you have apparently swallowed all the Dem’s assertions, so there is really no use in arguing the case. You can read my reasons for supporting him in the lounge.

Trump, with all his faults, has been the most unfairly charged president ever. The press is unrelenting, the Dem party is the same. The Russian Collusion thing was indeed a hoax, and the FBI was investigating a crime that was not there. For two years!! Rosenstein offers to wear a wire!!. I know, it was a “joke”. Here is CNN on that, Feb 17, 2019:

CNN: Former acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe said Sunday that Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein "offered to wear a wire into the White House," resurfacing one of the most controversial and disputed episodes of the Justice official’s tenure.

McCabe told CBS’ Scott Pelley on “60 Minutes” that Rosenstein said, “‘I never get searched when I go into the White House. I could easily wear a recording device. They wouldn’t know it was there.’”

As CNN previously reported, Rosenstein denies he pursued any recording, and a source in the room for these conversations said Rosenstein was being sarcastic.

But in McCabe’s view, Rosenstein “was not joking,” disputing the narrative it was not seriously considered at the time.

“He was absolutely serious,” McCabe told Pelley. “And in fact, he brought it up in the next meeting we had. I never actually considered taking him up on the offer. I did discuss it with my general counsel and my leadership team back at the FBI after he brought it up the first time.”

I read two articles on the Flynn deal. one noting 12 reasons why it ws dropped, and the other stating how bad it was to do that. The first was well referenced and the second a hit piece. I can tell the difference. This has been going on for 3 years.

You say I have noted a change. Episodes such as these have shown me the lengths to which Dems will go to tarnish this guys reputation. Wear a wire!!

So, Jeremy, you can save your sermons for someone else. I personally don’t like the man, and won’t listen to his narcissistic speeches etc. But the opposition is dishonest as the day is long, and without scruples. They have paralyzed the government with their resistance when they could have gotten some good deals from a guy who had been a Dem most of his life. They are the ones who have hurt America. Ridiculous.


Allen, we disagree on many (all?) things, but if we sat down at Starbucks for a cup of coffee, I am sure we would laugh a lot talking about non-theological/political issues. Not sure, though, if you would ever drink coffee (decaff, of course…) with any of the “fools,” much less with the “fool-in-chief” … :rofl:


You are right Jeremy. And it’s sad that Allen @ajshep embarked in such an odd trip. I wear my mask and gloves ,and keep the social distance. I become actually annoyed when someone comes close to me unprotected - and many still do! In two months as of today I’ve been out of my home only four times, to quickly get some groceries.

I wish good luck to those who “know better.” Trump and Pence refuse to wear a mask, well. it’s getting close to them now. This why Pelosi is getting ready to move to the White House soon… :laughing:

I just heard that all negativity is being removed from the White House. Everyone there is now becoming POSITIVE … :roll_eyes::rofl::rofl:

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but the point is, they’re touching less of their face, and are scooping up much less viral particles in the folds and creases of the skin on their hands…the surfaces they may be touching aren’t infecting them…canada’s chief medical officer has said that masks and gloves offer protection from coronavirus when everybody wears them…do you disagree with her…

the mask thing has everything to do with trump: he openly disdains them, and why…because he thinks they’d make him look bad on TV, which is all he cares about (he’s reported to have said this)…

the facts i’ve cited aren’t dem’s assertions…they’re facts…here they are again (and it’s only a partial list):

the mueller report established only that there wasn’t an official conspiracy to harm the u.s., due to insufficient information, as a result of the lies and obstruction from manafort and others, and the impossibility of arresting and questioning russian officials in russia…that’s it…it said nothing about collusion, which there obviously was, when you consider the 272 contacts with russians, and the 38 high level meetings with russian officials - together with the secret backchannel line suggested by jared kushner - that took place during the 2016 trump campaign, not to mention the endless lies about them that took place constantly during the campaign and investigation afterwards…

allen, these are all provable facts…the dems didn’t make this up…mueller cited 10 obstruction episodes against trump, who was desperately trying to cover up his attempts to sabotage the investigation into his involvement with russia, but decided not to bring charges in order to comply with the justice department’s guidelines on not indicting a sitting president…the whole world has seen all of this up close…you’re only discrediting yourself by saying it was all a hoax…

that’s a good one :slightly_smiling_face:

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I’ve been out probably 50 times and never wear a mask accept if I have to! I do have a small packet of wipes in the car, I made them with Huggies etc and added Isopropyl Alcohol, 90%. I wipe my hands, and all the things I touched when getting in the car. Do the same when I arrive home. So, it is not as if I am ignoring the whole thing.

Here is blurb on masks from an MD on Aljizira no less. But this article did cite science, the others did not:

The most recent study, published in April 2020, which is still in pre-print, examined the use of masks with a number of respiratory illnesses, including that of coronaviruses, and found again that there was no strong evidence to support the use of face masks by the general public.

While there may not be any significant evidence supporting the use of face masks by the general public, a lack of evidence is not necessarily evidence itself.

here is another from wired:

Could widespread (and proper) use of masks have made a difference where the virus escaped containment? A 2018 study by Jin Yan and colleagues from the US Food and Drug Administration constructed a model based on assumptions from laboratory data. They concluded that if only 20 percent of people use masks, it wouldn’t make a difference for the spread of influenza. At 50 percent compliance, though, with the use of high-filtration surgical masks, the effect might be substantial. That’s just a theoretical result, and we know that Covid-19 outbreaks have been contained in places without widespread use of masks. On the other hand, when an outbreak is out of control, even a small contribution matters.

Just not much real science on the matter. And as far as you George, going out with a mask, you are not protected, and you are probably the least likely to spread it, staying at home and all.

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse here, but I think the masks do little, and are an annoyance.

I would not wear a mask if Trump wore them all day long!

Jeremy, go watch these people! You haven’t? So how can you say it? Some are careful, but the vast majority are not. I did not have to watch more than a minute to see errors.

The report said no collusion. And you are saying that it really was they were kept form getting enough information to prove it? After 2 years?? All the investigators were Dems???

Here is the repot statement:

The special counsel found that Russia did interfere with the election, but “did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple efforts from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.”

Now it was hard to find this statement.(It’s from the ABA, American Bar Association, no friend of Trump), Other sources go to great lengths to show how Trump people talked with Russians on various matters, did this and that, etc. etc. But Mueller could not find conspiracy or coordination.

Trump touted, “Total Exoneration!” but this is an exaggeration. Prosecutors do not exonerate. They just show whether the crime they are investigating was committed. And Mueller could not do that. So he made statement above.

However, I can understand why he said this. He had been under the gun for 2 years. He had surrendered a million pages of documents and allowed his staff to testify to Mueller’s group without claiming executive privilege. He was open with them, because he knew that he had not done anything wrong.

So for you or anyone else to claim he was not clear of conspiracy is ridiculous. If Mueller could not do it with what he had, it did not happen. You mention some sealed stuff, and an attorney in NY. All unknowns Jeremy, so speculation. Why even bring that up when you can’t prove anything? What is known is in the report. No conspiracy or coordination, or collusion. Period.

My sentiments toward Trump are similar to yours. I sat out the presidential election of 2016, the first time I hadn’t voted for president since first voted for Nixon in 1972. I can’t take the chance that the Dems may win in 2020, I will most likely hold my nose and vote for Trump. Bernie sanders has pushed the center of gravity in the Dem party so far to the left it’s pathetic.

I think what troubles me the most right now is that no political figure of significance in either party seems worried about the skyrocketing national debt. Just keep passing stimulous bills mounting to trillion of dollars and just turn on the money presses at the Fed.

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the report never mentioned the word collusion, in terms of a crime, even once…this was one of barr’s contributions…but the president has said, “no collusion, no conspiracy”, so many times, his supporters actually believe it now…remember, collusion and conspiracy are not the same things…

the man is playing you for a dummy, allen…i just wish you could see this…

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Here again is the report statement:

They used the words conspired or coordinated. OK, so there wan no conspiring or coordinating with the Russians to do anything. So you think that Trump did not conspire or coordinate, but did collude? Really?

A bunch of Russians made efforts to assist, but the Trump people would not let them.

You don’t like “Collusion”? OK, Trump did not conspire or coordinate with the Russians. How is that?

I think this is a huge problem as well. But there is no one even thinking of brakes. The Dems want to bail out the states! It is a recipe for disaster, and the final failing of he American dollar.


actually, paul manafort, trump’s campaign manager, shared polling data with konstantin kilimnik, who is associated with moscow’s intelligence agencies, which is de facto coordination…there is also reason to believe that roger stone, a close trump ally, coordinated with wiki leak messaging, which is also coordination, plain and simple…

what source are you citing…

Mueller’s report said that.

i don’t buy it…the mueller report i read cited several instances of coordination, including the two i’ve mentioned…what mueller concluded was that what went on between russia and the trump campaign didn’t rise to criminality, in part because indicted individuals lied to prosecutors, and withheld evidence…

and that’s the catch: manafort is in jail because he lied to prosecutors, which is where michael flynn, of lock her up fame, should also be, and where rick gates also ought to be for longer than the 45 days he received…of course roger stone, of wikileaks fame, has been sentenced to almost 4 yrs in jail, but wonder of wonders, a new trial has been ordered…

people don’t lie to investigators when there’s nothing to hide, allen…and lying went on everywhere in the trump campaign, including with his son, don jr, and his daughter, ivanka…lying is the way this family operates…they’re all good at it…they’re all way past batting an eyelash over lying to people to their face…

personally, i would like to see biden win in november, not only so that decency can return to the white house, america and the world, but so that justice in this trump campaign saga can finally be realized…of course that justice should include jail time for trump himself, since, if he loses in november, the statue of limitations associated with several of his crimes won’t have run out…

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Let me know when and I’ll join you guys!


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No. He is Jail for Bank fraud. Nothing to do with the Trump campaign at all, but for crimes committed before he was the campaign manager. Here are the charges:

Manafort was charged with various financial crimes including tax evasion, bank fraud, and money laundering. There were 18 criminal charges including 5 falsifications of income tax returns, 4 failures to file foreign bank account reports, 4 counts of bank fraud, and 5 counts of bank fraud conspiracy.

So, no it was not for lying to prosecutors.

So, Jeremy, Trump did not conspire or coordinate anytime with the Russians, and Manafort was not jailed for anything he did with Trump.

You have swallowed the liberal press’s story on this. There was no collusion and Manafort was not convicted of lying.

It would be nice. Maybe at the GC? Wilson will be out…

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