The GC Says “Uplift Jesus.” Say What?


#21

Leroy,

Your paragraph is a warped syncretistic post of what is true & false.
The gospel embraced & applied does correct the ills of society. As it spread, it countered the barbarianism of areas it entered.

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. JN 17:17

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto .you, they are spirit, and they are life. JN 6:63

Ye are already clean by reason of the word which I have spoken to you. JN 15:3

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. JN 15:18
Jesus’ agenda is counter culture because cultures promote/generate pride & the flesh

Your article is a typical Spectrum misdirected tirade against leadership.

Do GC leaders, starting with Ted Wilson, present the weekly sermons & bible studies?

The problem in SDA land is inept teaching. The content is irrelevant, impractical, ambiguous, superficial & shallow. There is little to no clarification of the clichés & bible verses presented.
This teaching approach leads to lack of comprehension and thus negates practical application. Because of this ,the members of the denomination are strongly confused,fanatic, paranoid, apathetic & cynical.

By the way…as far as I am concerned, even the “Uplift Jesus” phrase as it is presented, is a warp of the original meaning from scripture.

I call churches, religious restaurants. Many SDA churches serve junk food, leftovers and/ or small portions that lead to indigestion, constipation, or even food poisoning.


(Harry Elliott) #22

You can’t fix what you don’t know about. “Whited sepulchers” wasn’t praise.


#23

I agree on both points.

The point that I am making is that the fix needs to be more comprehensive and at lower & local levels because the main problem is there.


#24

I thought I might answer your question first. I will concede that Ted Wilson wouldn’t be preaching in a small church say, in rural Iowa. His suit is much too expensive for that… But give him a big enough venue, he’ll be there!

Secondly, my article is really a lament for what the Gospel was and is supposed to do. But Christ’s teachings have been ignored altogether in favor of some other bureaucratic goals. The better part of Ellen White’s book, The Great Controversy, is an indictment of just how far the Christian church derailed from truth. She focuses on how these truths were slowly restored in the face of opposition and persecution. She goes on to conclude that these same issues will reemerge and God’s people will be asked once again to choose between apostate Christianity and truth.

When or if the church shuts down honest dialogue and places itself above any scrutiny, then we can be certain that human nature creeps in and a form of theological elitism will undoubtedly emerge.


#25

Leroy,

Thanks for the reply.

The SDA church has been messed up for at least 100 years.

Enfeebled and defective, needing constantly to be warned and counseled, the church is nevertheless the object of Christ’s supreme regard.” 7T 16

Too many church members , including clergy are contaminated by evangelical doctrinal error and with secular values/concepts.

“Wherever the Word of God has been faithfully preached, results have followed that attested its divine origin. The Spirit of God accompanied the message of his servants, and the word was with power.” GC 461

90% of churchgoers have never read the whole bible. Most don’t even look at the SS lesson. The sermons = non fat dry milk typical topical sermons with low bible exposure and shallow/warped exegesis.

What goes on at the GC level has little to do what transpires at the local levels. SDA pastors are all over the map with their amateur religious, play church, agendas. Most pastors do not support the Sabbath school or care if the teachers are competent.

Check out where you worship and perform a survey on who has read bible once and ask all , what is the gospel , what grace means and what salvation means and how is one saved.
Answers will be partial trite nonsense and all over the map


(Cfowler) #26

Who do you believe “God’s people” to be? SDA’s? Sabbath keepers? Or something else? What do you believe is “the truth” that people will be choosing?

As to Ted Wilson…It would be interesting if he did a sermon (an exegetical one) on some of the books of the NT…Ephesians, Galatians, etc. And he can’t use EGW/SDA writings…only Scripture! Only what Scripture actually says…leaving out the reams of EGW quotes!

I agree that there is a lot of “bad religion” out there. Thankfully there are still biblically sound teachers/pastors who preach the gospel/repentence/being born again to live by the Spirit. That doesn’t mean uniformity on every little issue, but growing in the Spirit…

Thanks…I enjoyed your writing!:slightly_smiling_face:


(Michael Wortman) #27

This is unfair and unkind.


#28

Truth sometimes appears to be unkind. It is not my fault that he likely wouldn’t preach in a small setting. The cost of the suit was not meant to offend. It was a reference to a line I used in the article. Again I didn’t mean to offend or be unkind.


#29

I believe apostate Christianity to be those who take the name of Jesus and then do almost everything they can to defeat His teachings. The truth God’s people will cling to, will, in my view, be at two different levels.

The first level is to accept the plain teachings found in Scripture while recognizing that we will always have new insights and as you say, we should be open to “Growing in the Spirit”.

The second level has to do with how we translate our mission to others while we await the second coming of Jesus. Have we really shown God’s love to the least of the brethren or are we more content to just write people off? Remember Jesus says that our actions and attitudes toward others is really the same actions and attitudes we have toward Him. It is very much the idea that Christ fiercely defends His creation against all adversaries.

Unless I have missed something, the second level of being a true disciple seems to be a defining delineation between the sheep and the goats. It is possible, in my view, there will be those who never understood the timelines from the book of Daniel, but nevertheless will be counted among God’s children and will share in an earth made new!


(Cfowler) #30

Does the Bible speak of “new light”?

I don’t think that “growing in the Spirit” is about new light, but of the fruit spoken of in Galatians…maturing in our walk with Christ.

Absolutely! Salvation is in no way dependent upon understanding Daniel’s timelines. I’m sure that there are those who think they understand it, but don’t, who will also be in the earth made new.

Thanks for your response.:slightly_smiling_face:


#31

This is simply an untrue assumption. He does preach in small congregations. You just don’t hear about it.


#32

You are probably correct. I no doubt misspoke. My apologies to anyone who might have been offended. I am truly sorry for the mistake. So my original hypothetical phone call between a GC official to another GC official wasn’t so far off after all! (This was simply a way to introduce the subject in a way that called attention to the purpose of the document purporting to be a call to uplift Jesus.). Next, someone will likely tell me that GC officials don’t use phones for any reason. In which case you have my apology for the entire section!


(George Tichy) #33

Would you care to be more specific so that we can know what you are talking about? Please elaborate (briefly!), to help us identify,

  1. Evangelical doctrinal error
  2. Secular value/concept

(George Tichy) #34

No, Ted cannot make a sermon like that. I doubt he can make a sermon w/o using the SOP, only the Bible. This appears to be an impossible mission for him.


#35
  1. Soteriology
    2.Culture

(Kim Green) #36

How can one possibly divorce “culture” from the SDA church? Even the Amish have some intrusions from “The World”.

You have made many assertions through the years regarding the average church member having a lack of knowledge due to being unfamiliar with the entire Bible. So…are you saying that if the average congregant would read the ENTIRE Bible that this would solve the lack of spirituality in the church (as this is implicitly implied)?

Since another theme of yours has been, “SDA pastors are all over the map with their amateur religious, play church, agendas. Most pastors do not support the Sabbath school or care if the teachers are competent.”

How can you possibly know any or most of this other than your own personal observations?


(Harry Elliott) #37

The outrage of every religion with a holy book is the teaching that obedience to its bible is necessarily obedience to God. Obedience to our Bible is worth considering as long as we keep in mind that the words were composed, written, redacted, edited, copied, collected, interpreted, etc.–and in some cases faked–by sinners sometimes even worse than we.


(jeremy) #38

there is this element, but in the case of the bible, there’s also divine inspiration…that’s actually why we overlook the flaws in both the bible and egw…


#39

We have this Treasure in , “Earthen Vessels”. But God is able to use even the humble efforts by His prophets to convey truth. “Line upon Line, precept on precept”. The big picture is clearly given and praise be to God He desires that we all benefit from His imparted Word.


#40

Yes there is divine inspiration, given a few suppositions:

  1. That the bible is instructive for “knowing God and diligently seeking him”
  2. There is sufficient instruction in the bible for obtaining “wisdom” OT vernacular for the NT “gospel”.
  3. Contact time with “God”, with the understanding of your unique opportunity to have a “relationship” – deeper understanding of God thru “application - specifically reading His word”… is to coin a phrase… “salvific” in and of itself… and thus … while pursuing this “relation of trust and dependence” which awakens "thoughts of worship and acknowledgement…

Including “the bible and EGW” in that sentence – presupposes that the reader/thinker “considers the bible the rule of faith”… this is not so in the SDA culture. Primacy sourcing, whether, coding, inferential deduction, or external source validating an external source (invalid) doesn’t preclude – face time.

I think it’s great that EGW had a solid walk with God. However, her walk is not … unique to me, only mine is… there is before me a land, adventure, and walk of faith… waiting for exploration and discovery… That’s what so wonderful about God’s grace… it’s self aware, and unique to you, and to me individually. I find thoughts on this board that I sometime disagree with, some I agree with but, I also draw strength and breadth from the multiple and varied “points of view” …

It’s not so much the answers I seek in life… the question is… am i asking the right questions?.. and they really faith based?.. Obedience is NOT faith based… it’s heart response to honor actively someone you hold in high regard… (thus ultimately dependence wise… you lose if you end up having faith in your own “status”)

If I don’t really spend time (contact time searching/seeking out truth… as I encounter God, in multiple ways… )… why would I want to spend even more time with someone I read about, learned about, was taught about, taught to have motivation out of fear for, … but never… look Jesus can meet all your needs… He waits for you to respond… you can actually "read EGW and/or the bible for that matter for appeasement… " to get brownie points… I dont keep score anymore… I just want to know and discover truth…

I’ll put it another way… Jesus had a very high regard for those people He met… that’s why people responded to Him… and whatever else “occured”, responses, following, obedience, thinking… stemmed from that regard… thus since SDA doesn’t allow me to study, and still regard me as valueable… in practice (insert culture here)… it becomes very “non-salvific” and feeds on itself.

I care about what God thinks of me, not what value you "equate with me either agreeing of better yet… disagreeing with your “point of view”…

Jesus was “inclusionary” not “exclusionary”…

with kind regards,