The Southern Union Issues Statement Regarding Annual Council 2018

Perhaps it is the example you have been writing about recently???

However, with examination, perhaps other compliance issues could be discovered as I’m sure the existence of many compliance committees just waiting for agenda items will compel Adventists to look for issues of noncompliance now that we can move forward with the correct policies and structures in place.

Tom and I live in GA – Part of the Southern Union.
At this time I am unclear WHY the President wrote what he wrote.
Maybe he wanted to be a “ME TOO” person, but couldn’t quite come
to say what the others around the world were saying as the SU is
NOT ready to be non-compliant.
Although I understand by ‘a grape vine’ that perhaps several of the
conferences are ready to be non-compliant.


i think the southern union is indicating that it’s lot is with NAD, and whatever NAD decides…it’s an understated indication, to be sure…but a lot of southerners have a genteel, delicate way of putting things…


10/25/18 - #14

Steve and Tom live in Georgia with Jimmy Carter who believes that the mistreatment of women and girls is the number one human rights abuse in the world:



He’s married to a woman who had children before they were together and it’s been a struggle for him to allow them to be themselves. He feels it’s his religious duty to police them. His efforts include locking the kitchen after bedtime in case the teenagers want a snack and putting a block on the computer, so they don’t break the Sabbath.


One time I visited his house when his younger children had been put to bed without any supper because they wouldn’t say the Lord’s Prayer before the meal. His wife disagreed and was upset that her children were in bed crying from hunger, but she felt powerless to say anything because she believed her husband was the God-ordained head of the family and she must obey him.

I can think of no worse marriage than to be married to a narcissist who believes God wants him to control the entire family, but that’s what happens when a narcissist feels ordained by God to practice male headship.

The belief that a man is superior to a woman can be the first step to justify narcissistic behavior. If God made Adam more important than Eve and he is the celebrated leader, while she is expected to be his foot woman and water carrier, she is robbed of her God-given individuality and freedom.

WO will affect Adventist professional women in Western cultures.

Male Headship will affect millions of families all over the world, and cause untold family ruptures, mental illness and suicides.

It will also reinforce preexisting cultural mores that are abusive of women and children.

This social experiment has already been run with disastrous results.

Adventists, please do not destroy your families and your congregations this way.

Be salt and light.


So why would anyone devote 2019 to evangelizing people and enlisting them to join a church that cultivates a Gestapo style reporting system?
Why would anyone spend 2020 trying to revitalize dying churches that specialize in tittle-tattling on fellow church members?
Why would anyone in 2021 try to retain members in a church that puts a stigma on female leaders and those who ordain women?
It seems to me that a lot of work is going to be put into a lost cause.


Oh wow! Looks like another Union has plucked up the courage to jump the fence. Wonder how many more are thinking about it??



I am not sure, but this statement from the SU President appears to be a cheap attempt to save face on both sides. Are they on the top of the wall, actually undecided?

To have ANY credibility, they still have to come clean with an unequivocal wording and also, tell the world what did they do so far to really show that they are willing to eliminate discrimination of women in their region. Otherwise I would just say to them, “Nice try… but get off the wall!” Then we will see were the SU actually is!

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Update –
Tom and I both live in Georgia.
Here in Georgia Methodists, Baptists, Episcopalians, many ethnic congregations
have welcomed women as Full-Fledged pastors.
Southern Baptists DON’t. But there ARE MANY other Baptist congregations all around
the Great State of Georgia who DO NOT belong to the Southern Baptists because they
are “too Fundamental” as one person told me. Check out The Cooperative Baptist Ass’n.
This year they celebrated 25 years.
1st Baptist here in town is a member, has 2 women pastors on staff, Several months ago
Celebrated a Gay Wedding of 2 of their men members, with over 400 persons in attendance
of the festive occasion. [was featured on front page of the local paper]
There ARE other Denomination churches who are ALL WELCOMING and appreciate the
contributions that gay and lesbian members provide, and who love and serve the Lord.
Jimmy Carter might NOT find a Baptist Church here in Macon that agrees with him.
However, Jimmy WOULD probably find that the SDAs DO AGREE with him.

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At this point I wouldn’t be very harsh in my criticism of the SU. It may be holding its cards close to the chest and planning to lay them down at the November NAD meetings. Fingers crossed.


I agree. Their president was the first to speak at Autumn Council and his exasperation and frustration at the compliance documents was visible and audible.

Listen to Dr. Ron Smith at 2:05.15 for yourself by clicking HERE.


Yes, thank you @harrpa, that was my impression as well. For easy access to his response: and move to about the 2:03:10 location

The statement from the Southern Union is more mellow in tone then (SU president) Dr. Ron Smith’s contribution to the Battle gathering.

Isn’t this a bit bass-ackwards ?

‘Let’s catch the fish before we bait the hook and have a safe landing net . . . .’ ?

Maybe, just like in the construction industry, new, young apprentices are cheaper and easier to handle than crusty old toots. . . if we can just wait long enough, maybe those old toots will simply blow away.

‘Mixed metaphors’ ? Just what is not mixed up these days ?

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Benefit of the doubt OK for a few days.
But no more Beautiful Statements from them after that, right?


And remember that the Southern Union encompasses an area that has some of the most conservative Christians in the nation. According to exit polls in Alabama’s last senatorial election, 80% of the white evangelicals who voted cast their votes for Judge Moore despite some pretty credible evidence of his womanizing and pediphilia. I’m not certain whether this directly reflects Southern attitudes toward women in general.

Yes, I remember that. I still cannot understand what is wrong with those evangelicals.

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Instead of following Jesus’ teachings (which admittedly Adventists don’t) they are Christians. They follow their Christian leaders, not Jesus.


They apparently believe that the bottommost line for them is abortion. They don’t care how evil, conniving, un-Christian a leader is, if he appoints anti-abortion activist judges and supports anti-choice congressional representatives, that trumps (pun intended) everything else. Everything else is a forgivable mistake that can be overlooked if the person is on the same page as their anti-choice sentiments. In fact, these evangelicals believe it is a Christian characteristic to forgive Roy Moore of pedophilia if he is “right” on their other main issue.

Being anti-abortion supercedes racism, sexism, separation of church and state, hate language, derision, lies, falsity, collaboration with rouge nations, and collaborating with a foreign entity to win an election.

That is not just a Southern attitude. It is nationwide and how Trump got elected.


10/26/18 - #12/12

Actually, abortion is the proxy for racism.

Abortion was merely more cosmetically acceptable than the racism that really united and energized the far Christian Right voting bloc:

But the abortion myth quickly collapses under historical scrutiny. In fact, it wasn’t until 1979—a full six years after Roe —that evangelical leaders, at the behest of conservative activist Paul Weyrich, seized on abortion not for moral reasons, but as a rallying-cry to deny President Jimmy Carter a second term.


Because the anti-abortion crusade was more palatable than the religious right’s real motive: protecting segregated schools.

So much for the new abolitionism.

Yes…Evangelicals are a male-dominated lot. And, yes…it was a major voting block for Trump. It does appear that they had certain things in mind while helping elect him and he appears to still be championing some issues that he didn’t care about before. Apparently they care less about his mistresses, marriages, etc., which should tell us some things about some Evangelical Leaders. Politics and organized religions have always used each other throughout history. I doubt that it will stop.

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