The Unacknowledged Protest at Ted Wilson's Q&A

(Steve Mga) #62

There are times when un-trained “counselors” are tempted to go beyond their
abilities. When un-trained “counselors” attempt to give advice and direction when
THIS IS NOT what the person really is asking for.
Perhaps a person might be better served with DISCERNMENT activities in order
to hear an “Inner Voice” help to know what would be helpful.
Even PRAYER, by what is said, can be UNHELPFUL in a situation.

(Tim Teichman) #63

Naturally the Ministry magazine thinks it’s a good idea for pastors to council. Doesn’t make it so. My own family experience with pastors counseling has been dismal at best.

Among other things, a sincerely deluded pastor counseled my mother to stay in a broken and physically abusive marriage. Pray about it and hope he gets better, the pastor said. Repeatedly. For years. He told her it was what God wanted.

Finally after years of abuse, after she had her husband arrested for a beating that landed her in the hospital, she decided correctly that the pastor was an idiot.

Do you think the pastor ever apologized for his crappy advise that helped make her life a living hell for years? Nope, 'cause he has the Bible and God on his side - in his own tiny little uneducated mind.

Jesus said a man and a woman should stay married unless one of them cheats on the other. No other reasons offered. So, we must pray about it and hope. Not contact social services. Not divorce. Not call the police. Nope. Not what Jesus said.

The problem with pastors counseling on any issue other than a crisis of faith is that they temper/slant/alter their advise because of their religious beliefs. Or, at least, they are much more likely to do so than a professionally trained clinical counselor, either because of those beliefs or because of their position.

(Elmer Cupino) #66

Frequently I have a hard time distinguishing whether a pastor has been trained in counseling or not. Most of the time I am floored by what comes out of their mouths. OTOH there are those who are skilled enough.


(reliquum) #67

One is led to wonder if the true unacknowledged protest might not be the voice of a near moot conscience. I would give my birch bark bible to hear the voice in the head of the President of the Seventhday Adventist church. Power has such seductive art to mute, or make dumb, near any man.

Those around power must walk on egg shells, no yolk. I think Dr Luxton did the best she could to serve separate masters.

(Faith) #69

I am not saying he has. What I am saying is we need our leaders to lead. I believe it would help a great deal if the powers that be would come out strongly against any form of abuse and set better guidelines and training for local pastors. The frontlines are dealing with it even if the higher-ups are insulated

(Frank Peacham) #70

Leadership should listen to the advice of Jesus to practice openness and transparency: “For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.” Lk 8:17

To ignore an issue will not solve anything–but only give energy to what they were attempting to ignore and conceal. Generally when a public issue is concealed it is indefensible or embarrassing.

(Elmer Cupino) #71

I had watch the tape until Dr. Luxton asked Pastor Wilson about WO. Pastor Wilson’s answer was in effect something like “We don’t do WO because Jesus ordained only men.” It was soon after this that I turned off the program. Would you consider this as “discrimination” knowing the context and culture of Jesus’ times?



No, in the context of Jesus’ time it was the culturally appropriate action. In much of the world today it would not be discrimination. Now the question is if it was a transgendered person would that be discrimination? Or what if it was an atheist, would that be discrimination? Not all discrimination is bad, we decide (discriminate) for or against all kinds of things every day. They are all decided by a person’s underlying belief system or perhaps underlying denominational belief system.

(Elmer Cupino) #73

Whether it be a “bad” or good discrimination, it still is nonetheless discrimination. And depending on whether one is in the receiving end or not would make it a “bad” or good discrimination. You would imagine that for an organization steeped in preaching morality, that this kind of selective discrimination would not be of prime interest but here we are as a church, still struggling what to do with WO. And we look to our leaders for direction, but all we get is ambivalence.

(George Tichy) #85

There is a huge difference between “choosing” and “discriminating,” is not?

If I buy black shoes instead or brown shoes, am I discriminating against the brown shoes? Would you say such a thing to the salesperson helping you? I doubt.

Sorry, but discrimination is never a good thing.

(Elmer Cupino) #86

Bull’s eye!!! 20/20 character


Language can be very powerful and we have observed how political and activist climates have turned certain words into ‘hot buttons’, i.e. “discrimination”. Discrimination by Prejudice, if identified by negative motive, is of course unacceptable. Discrimination by Discernment is, as you stated, performed daily by everyone: aka distinguish, discern, tell apart, recognize, identify, pick out, determine, contrast.


Ron seemed to clearly distinguish between Discrimination by Prejudice and Discrimination by Discernment: deciding/choosing without malice.

If a salesperson asks me why i chose black shoes over brown, i might cite certain published, negative public reviews for the brown shoe manufacturer. Or, i might simply state i have enough brown shoes!

I can heartily support your last declaration, but restating it thusly: "…Discrimination by Prejudice is never a good thing"

(Spectrumbot) closed #89

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