The “Uplifting Jesus” Statement: A Theological Perspective

Revelation 14’s reference to the commandments of God (verse 12) can easily be equated with the Ten on the basis of James 2:10-12, in which the standard of God’s final judgment—the hour of which is announced in Revelation 14:7—is declared to be the Ten Commandments.

Furthermore, the reference in Revelation 14:7 to worshiping the Creator of heaven and earth, coupled with the reference in verse 12 to God’s commandments, quickly directs one’s mind to the Fourth Commandment, which is the only one of the Ten acknowledging God’s Creatorship.

So far as the Spirit of Prophecy is concerned, that isn’t mentioned in chapter 14, but is in fact mentioned in 12:17, in which the “testimony of Jesus Christ” is in the subjective genitive form, which means it is Jesus’ testimony to His church, not the church’s testimony concerning Jesus. Moreover, when this verse is combined with Revelation 19:10 and 22:9, it becomes clear that the gift of prophecy is in focus, not simply the Holy Spirit that inspired the prophets.

Compare these Scriptures with each other, and it becomes clear that only one religious community on earth fulfills the Biblical requirement for God’s end-time church, and that is the Seventh-day Adventist movement. No other church on earth that I know of is proclaiming the messages of the three angels of Revelation 14—the hour of God’s judgment now in progress, the fall of apostate Christianity, and the warning about the coming mark and image of the beast.

At least I haven’t myself encountered this message from any other source.

Tim, some urban legends have been around much longer than that—like the Illuminati and the alleged Jewish conspiracy to rule the world. And from all I’ve studied so far as Ellen White’s use of sources is concerned, and what I know of the doctrine of Fair Use so far as such practices are and were concerned, Ellen White was fully within her rights to use the material she utilized.

When one considers the few examples of source dependency cited, for example, in Walter Rea’s The White Lie, and elsewhere, those Ellen White works where this is documented are comparatively very few—the Conflict of the Ages series, a few of her other standard works, very little in the Testimonies, and almost none in her voluminous periodical articles, letters of counsel, and manuscripts (released and otherwise). Of the 100,000 pages total in the Ellen G. White writings, my guess is that from what evidence of source utilization has in fact been alleged, the actual percentage of borrowed material in the Spirit of Prophecy writings probably amounts to somewhere in the low single digits, give or take a few points.

And let’s also keep in mind that inspired writings never profess to be original; they only profess to be in harmony with prior revelation. The Bible does not say, “To the law and to originality.”

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You are Funny. James says the whole law. The 10 commandments are not considered by anyone…well maybe poorly informed people, to mean the 10 commandments. But it just goes to show that you can cherry pick your way to any interpretation.


There actually was an Illuminati…

The Illuminati (plural of Latin illuminatus, “enlightened”) is a name given to several groups, both real and fictitious. Historically, the name usually refers to the Bavarian Illuminati, an Enlightenment-era secret society founded on 1 May 1776. The society’s goals were to oppose superstition, obscurantism, religious influence over public life, and abuses of state power. “The order of the day,” they wrote in their general statutes, “is to put an end to the machinations of the purveyors of injustice, to control them without dominating them.”[1] The Illuminati—along with Freemasonry and other secret societies—were outlawed through edict by the Bavarian ruler Charles Theodore with the encouragement of the Roman Catholic Church, in 1784, 1785, 1787, and 1790.[2] In the several years following, the group was vilified by conservative and religious critics who claimed that they continued underground and were responsible for the French Revolution.

Many influential intellectuals and progressive politicians counted themselves as members, including Ferdinand of Brunswick and the diplomat Xavier von Zwack, who was the Order’s second-in-command.[3] It attracted literary men such as Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and Johann Gottfried Herder and the reigning dukes of Gotha and Weimar.[4]

And this is part of a letter written by George Washington referencing the Illuminati:

"It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am.

The idea that I meant to convey, was, that I did not believe that the Lodges of Free Masons in this Country had, as Societies , endeavoured to propagate the diabolical tenets of the first, or pernicious principles of the latter (if they are susceptible of seperation). That Individuals of them may have done it, or that the founder , or instrument employed to found, the Democratic Societies in the United States, may have had these objects; and actually had a seperation of the People from their Government in view, is too evident to be questioned."
Link to letter:


Yes! To paraphrase Jan Brady, “Kevin, Kevin, Kevin!”

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Starting to wonder if he’s a paid propagandist here, greasing the skids for, in Kevin’s Orwellian Newspeak:

The Biblical Order of Gender Authority

It’s a seriously bad sign to start hearing bizarre, sinister phrases like that.



The smart money is on Jesuit infiltrator.


Maybe he did, but I haven’t seen Kevin doing this.

Who does this undiguisedly is Allen @ajshep. Every time I addressed the issue of Evangelicals supporting Trump’s pervert behavior, Allen immediately detoured the conversation to Hillary, Obama, etc. In my perception, my opinion, is that Allen is a SDA Pastor who has no problem with Trump’s character. I don’;t know what he tells his congregation about this subject.

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You are 100% right.
Kevin talks to “the rest of us” as if he were some famous teacher, a brilliant, phenomenal researcher who is lecturing a class of intellectually handicap people.
You got your perception right. And this time he came on a spiritual spree to make sue that "everyone understands it!"
Do we really care about his personal interpretations and biases?..


And if some of EGWs teachings are wrong, then that makes an allowance for some Biblical statements to be wrong. Either because their authors are wrong, or because we interpret them through a different cultural lens.

Please don’t bounce back with none of them being wrong. And if it is possible that they could be interpreted in multiple ways, consider that you also have the ability to interpret them in multiple ways, and to accept as doctrine positions that have not been endorsed by the church in the fundamental beliefs.

I am retired, so don’t tell them anything I already said Trump was immoral. (I won’t mention that Hillary was too. Oops, it just slipped out. Sorry)

You see George, I think Trump has an immoral character. He did betray his wife when he went with that prostitute years ago. And he has bragged about his offensive behavior towards women. Not a righteous man.

So, no, I do not approve of his character. But I do approve of his policies.

So, what was I to do? Hillary would have instituted policies that I disagreed with, and she included me among the deplorables. I voted for him (actually I did not vote at all, I was out of town.) because of the policies he would institute. And I favor him still, not because of character, but because of policies.

Why do you judge me on the basis of his character? I do not judge you on the basis of Hillary’s. I think you are an honest man, and not near so devious as she. Yet you will not give me the same benefit of the doubt. Why is that?

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The Evangelicals and Trump like each other. Mutual back rubbing.

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Kevin, I am so sorry I accused you of defending Mr Trump. As George rightly pointed out I was thinking of another person.

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Thank you for your post. Sending it was an act of kindness. You are correct. I had another couple of persons in mind.

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I understand. These mix-ups can happen. You’re forgiven!


Three important statements Kevin doesn’t believe in.

Robert Clarke, ‘The Sinless Servant’, The Christ of God, ch. v, pp. 49ff

The Sinlessness of Christ
Christ claimed to be absolutely sinless.
He prayed, but He never prayed for forgiveness.
He interceded on behalf of his disciples, but He never exhorted them to intercede for Him.
Although He called God His Father, He never called Him His Saviour.
He was conscious of world sin, but He was never conscious of personal sin.
He allowed those nearest to Him to believe that He was sinless.
He was weary, but He was never ill.
He sorrowed for the sin of the world, but He never sorrowed for His own sin.
He taught that all need to be born again, but He never hinted that He was born again, or that He needed such a change.
As well as claiming to be sinless, He was explicitly declared by the apostolic writers to be sinless.

C. H. Spurgeon, Christ’s Glorious Achievements, pp. 13–14
Look how the law is adapted to this; for, first of all, it shows man his sin. Read the ten commandments and tremble as you read them. Who can place his own character side by side with the two tablets of divine precepts without at once being convinced that he has fallen far short of the standard?
When the law comes home to the soul it is like light in a dark room revealing the dust and the dirt which else had been unperceived. It is the test which else had been unperceived. It is the test which detects the presence of the poison of sin in the soul.
‘I was alive without the law once,’ said the apostle,’ but when the commandment came sin revived and I died.’ Our comeliness utterly fades away when the law blows upon it. Look at the commandments, I say, and remember how sweeping they are, how spiritual, how far-reaching. They do not merely touch the outward act, but dive into the inner motive and del with the heart, the mind, the soul.
There is a deeper meaning in the commands than appears on their surface. Gaze into their depths and see how perfect is the holiness which they require. As you understand what the law demands, you will perceive how far you are from fulfilling it, and how sin abounds where you thought there was little or none of it.
You thought yourself rich and increased in goods and in no need of anything, but when the broken law visits you, your spiritual bankruptcy and utter penury stare you in the face. A true balance discovers short weight, and such is the first effect of the law upon the conscience of man.

Desmond Ford, Right with God Right Now, new version, pp. 175–176

Romans 8: We Stand in Justification
Christianity is not a mechanical religion.
We do not receive forgiveness only for every sin
remembered and confessed. We are so weak we are
often unaware of our mistakes. Rather, when we
look to Jesus we are justified all the time.
We are always right with God in Christ.
This brings to our hearts the love
that is the intent of the law.
The first three verses of Romans 8 summarize the preceding 7 chapters of the book. They summarize Romans 1–5 and freedom from wrath; Romans 6 and freedom from sin; and Romans 7, freedom from the motivation of law.
They tell us of the tremendous blessings of the gospel. There is no condemnation for the believer, today, tomorrow, or the next day.

We stand in justification
I feel sad for people who think that justification happens only at the beginning of the Christian life to get us started—but after that it’s all sanctification.
The idea that God does a mighty work for you and forgives you at the start, but then—you’d better not make any more mistakes or you’ll be done in. That is not the teaching of the Bible.
We stand in justification, according to Romans 5:1:
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. (Romans 5:1–2 NIV)
Being justified by faith, we stand; we have access.
In other words, justification is over us all the time, until we die, until Jesus comes.


Beautiful, Gill. Thank you!

The Scripture that immediately comes to mind is:

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

—Hebrews 5

I have great respect for you and Des, and I’m really interested in how you both see Jesus’ human process.

Milton said some really interesting things here:

I hope he will come over here and talk with you!

Cassie: I hope he will come over here and talk with you!.

That line is a bit mysterious, Cassie. Milton is over here. I talk to him on the phone quite often. You mean Kevin? Unlikely. We all know each other of old. His parents are/were gospel supporters. Message me on Des’s FB page. Thanks.

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Ooh…I meant from that thread to this thread.

I didn’t know you knew each other. :slight_smile:

Then there are the “seventhday jihAdventists” claiming inerrancy, beheading (spiritually, at least) those they deem unfaithful to their corrosive conservatism.