A specialist in GC decision said: “The man won with 90% votes. The number of delegates was about 2500. In order for 90% votes to represent a flawed process they have to vote clearly against the purpose of the church. That is proclaiming the 3 angels message, or block all entrances and put a gun at the delegates heads. “
This is not a matter of how one think. There are rules put down in the legal framework which guide what is legal and what is not. One should be very careful for putting forward accusations in regard to flaws.
When attacking others is comical I will agree with you. If your words don’t come from anger then they are coming from somewhere worse. In any event, you’ve taken us off topic once again.
The reality of that delegates are under extreme pressure to keep the status quo. There is no real seeking of God’s leading at this event it appears.
? The process is flawed so the outcome by definition is flawed. By all evidence, it is flawed. There are coerced voting blocks in certain regions; employees will not visibly do the right thing against their leadership. This is the definition of flawed. True, the ordained outcome was 90%, but that is a mandate level and that is extremely flawed.
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Let’s see…that would have been 2005. I wasn’t even following this stuff or commenting here back then. Maybe you need the back story before hurling accusations.
Once again, the issue is a deeply flawed process, regardless of who was elected. Maybe it would also help if you stayed on point, regardless of bias.
Frank
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now, when no-one’s presidency is on the line, and a change in voting procedure wouldn’t have to be viewed as an indication of disaproval, might be a good time to address the presidential voting process for 2020…
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You seem to be promoting the end justifies the means…as long as it’s “legal,” and doesn’t subvert official mission or polity. That doesn’t go far enough.
How is there real choice when a committee that deliberates privately brings only one name to the floor to lead the world church? How is there freedom in this, as opposed to some form of imposition, when no real choice of candidates, who articulate different visions, is given to the entire representative body?
The whole process holds more in common with totalitarianism than with a free system of leadership. Even if it’s presently “legal” according to the church’s constitution and by-laws.
TW stands on revival and reformation. Here’s a possible place to begin. But, I’m not holding my breath.
Thanks…
Frank
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THERE IS A LOT OF CRYING AND DISAPPOINTMENT IN ADVENTISM
Disappointment hurts. The re-election of Ted Wilson, the inevitable rejection of any meaningful changes at the San Antonio meeting of the General Conference of SDA, and the almost certain anti- ordination vote for women in ministry, all can be summarized as another major disappointment for many Adventists. Many pastors and church employees have gone through a very disappointing meeting in San Antonio, thus far. One of the lessons learned thus far seems to be that if we are to stand up for real change then we must have a fundamental alternative to the status quo. The reality is that the process in San Antonio is political and no amount of sincerity or piety can hide that reality. They will return soon to face fellow church members and employees and families who have been hoping for different outcomes with hope for changes. They will put “a stiff upper lip” on the inspiration and pageantry with fine music that was shared by good people, gathered for a good purpose, ending in DISAPPOINTMENT for so many.
One friend who is a delegate from the Inter-America Division (in a miniscule minority) in siding with some fellow delegates from North America Division put it most eloquently in an e-mail to me:
“Hope for changes in the issues I most care about surges upward from your core and to the heart. It warms your blood as your heart crushes into itself twice every second and unbelievably, your mind starts to think of a million and one possibilities. You talk to fellow delegates and see the energy for change in the discussion. Your heart tingles and finally, after what seemed like eons, you think you are feeling hope again. You start suppressing it out of reflex- an unconscious, uncontrollable action. It comes crashing down without warning. For a second, you still smile because your mind could not process the disappointment yet. Then - hurt, sadness, shock - flits through your mind. You still hold on to your hope like a child who refuses to let go of a belief in Santa Claus. Your smile wavers. But just like grabbing onto handfuls of sand, hope will fall out through your tightly clasped fingers. You realized that your hold on hope is no longer and instead, it is replaced by cold, unforgiving reality, things are going to stay the same, nothing changes. There is no Santa Claus.”
Like an icy slap to your face, like an unexpected kick to the stomach, like a bite from a dog you have always loved- that is how disappointment feels like. “1844–DEJA’VU IN 2015” Perhaps at such a time like this and ironically, Ellen White’s counsel is most appropriate:
“Through trials and persecutions, the glory-character-of God is revealed in His chosen ones. The church of God, hated and persecuted by the world are educated and disciplined in the school of Christ. They walk in narrow paths of affliction. They follow Christ through sore conflicts; they endure self-denial and experience bitter disappointments; but their painful experience teaches them the guilt and woe of sin, and they look upon it with abhorrence. Being partakers of Christ’s sufferings, they are destined to be partakers of His glory.” EGW, Thoughts From the Mount Of Blessing, p.31. There is crying and disappointment in baseball and in Adventism.
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SA 2015 will be Oct 23, 1844 for some members across the world church. So yep, get disappointed, get mad even, then get over it and move on. There are greater things to behold and focus on than Ted Wilson’s re-election or the WO issue. The Lord still leads His people.
Does anyone have an explanation for what happened to the Live feed from the GC Session tonight (Sunday)? I was watching the report videos… was called away from the computer for a short time. When I returned, shortly after 9:30 Eastern time… which should have meant another half hour of programming, there was nothing but music videos… ???
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I used to do the same in church boards, nominating committees and business meetings, and expected the same at conference level - put more than one motion/name on the floor and let people choose one. But then I was taught by my (white/past-middle-age/caucasian/pro-wo) mentors that another, better and more convenient way is to put only one motion/name on the floor, and if the majority vote for it, there’s no need for another motion or name.
So in my mind, since Ted Wilson’s name carried the majority vote already in the first instance in the NC and subsequently in the main arena, there was no need for another name. Even local church nominating committees read out only one nominee for each local church position. So I don’t see anything patently unfair or flawed about how Ted Wilson was chosen. Peace
Some of us can see through this charade…you seem to be happy with the outcome. Good for you.
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Indeed, satisfied with the process, happy with the outcome. Come let’s travel together.
We are not going to be “traveling” together because of where some of you are going (and already are). I can’t imagine God blessing this whole process.
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[quote=“cincerity, post:56, topic:8692”]
because of where some of you are going
[/quote] @cincerity please say just where you believe some are going. I don’t believe your speaking of Heaven. Just what are you insinuating with this statement ?
Going away from God’s will…very simple. Yours or anyone elses final destination is not for me to decide, I leave that up to God. Don’t you?
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So @cincerity you know Gods will ? We don’t need to pray that Gods will be done, we can just ask you? No, Thank You.
I think that you need to reread my reply more carefully…it had nothing to do with me but God. But just in case you are wondering…yes, I do have the ability to know God’s will when I see it. Don’t you?
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I ask
You seem to be predicting the future with this statement .
Your reply
Because the outcome isn’t what you wanted doesn’t mean it’s not Gods will .My prayers were answered with this process.
[quote=“cincerity, post:60, topic:8692”]
yes, I do have the ability to know God’s will when I see it.
[/quote] It seems only if His will agrees with your agenda .
I believe that it is exactly the same with you…everyone prays and God answers.
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