Timeout: “1,260 DAYS” and the Smoke Signals in Flyover Country


#21

Because they didn’t need a guy walking through a cornfield to bail them out on those. But your’e right and shouldn’t they also be under year/day principle?


(Robert Lindbeck) #22

@Beres the start of the 70 weeks prophecy is given in Daniel as “the decree to rebuild Jerusalem.” There are three recorded decrees to re-establish Jerusalem. Which one do you pick? The only one that fits the prophecy is the last one. This one specifically mentions the city and city walls. The others are related to the temple (but why build the temple if no walls to defend it?) The in habitants of Jerusalem certainly were of the impression that Zerubbabel was rebuilding the city. They wrote a letter to Artaxerxes
“Let it be known to the king that the Jews who came from you have returned to us at Jerusalem. They are rebuilding that rebellious and evil city, finishing its walls, and repairing its foundations.” Ezra 4:12 HCSB
Why choose the last decree? Because it fits. How much of the “defined” times & dates of prophecy are chosed simply because it fits


(ROBIN VANDERMOLEN) #23

Doctor Tonstad,
Your overview of the Middle Ages was magnificent. Surely a prolonged era of misery for mankind!

Your recounting of the Black Death and its horrors for humankind outpaced even the Holocaust for the mortality numbers over a short time period.

How could the Angels and EGW’s “unfallen beings on other planets” witness this deadly devastation and not clamor to God to end the carnage??

Why did a compassionate God not fast forward the Second Coming to prevent this deadly devastation ??.

Was it because of some obscure prophecy ( the 1260 days) that had yet to play out ??

And talking about OBSCURE, the end point of the prophecy 1798 has to be the most shadowy, shrouded, insignificant point in papal history.!

Only a papal pundit, or Vatican wonk, could now come up,with this obscure event in papal politics. So it is “grabbing at straws” to grasp this episode as an end Point to some esoteric bible event.

The true demolition of Catholicism ( mortal wound to the “Beast” ) is now taking place with the pandemic of pedophilia in papal ranks, not to mention the recent revelations of priests using nuns as sex slaves!


#24

That’s how time prophecy fulfillment claims always work. And when they don’t work out, we scramble for other – usually spiritual – applications, the most brilliant of them being the unfalsifiable investigative judgment.


(David) #25

It seems in this article that suddenly there is no question whatsoever that the only option for the 1260 and maybe by extension the trumpets is a historical application. I was hoping for more options, a bit further from the center of the old box theories. But this raises no question at all that the 1260 number only applies to a preset determination of time long ago set down with no other options available. I also have wondered for many years why nearly all theologians refuse to look beyond the borders or Western Europe and the US as viable territory in which to look for biblical interpretations. Is there anyone on earth interested in looking for historical interests in the vast civilizations outside Western Europe during these times? Is it really true that prophecies restricted themselves to purely Western history, ignoring completely the huge empires in China and other vast regions left out of nearly everyone’s scope of pervue? Did God forget that there were other people living on earth during these times? I just wonder about such things but may never find a satisfying answer I suppose.

I have an answer for you and for any one else that might have the same question. The limits on the “box” are defined in Daniel 2 and 7. The image that Nebuchadnezzar saw in ch. 2 established Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome as the kingdoms of import. The ten toes of the fourth kingdom (Rome) are the ten kings in Revelation 17:12 (and 13). The four beasts in ch. 7 give another view of the same Kingdoms. Western Europe was the epicentre of the Roman Empire and so plays a key part in the prophecy. That’s not to say that the other kingdoms of the earth are not influenced by the fourth kingdom/beast because they are.


#26

Decent answer to an interesting question. I wonder how much further the question may be explored, though.


(Frankmer7) #27

Robin…

The historicist view followed by Adventism claims the mortal wound happened in 1798, with Berthier taking the pope captive, and the wound being healed in 1929 with Mussolini’s recognition of the papal state. Now, you’re applying the same text to the pedophilia scandals rocking the RCC.

I’m not criticizing you, but this is the entire problem with historicism as an interpretive lens. It draws fulfillments from the headlines of the times, and reads them into the text of Revelation. The whole system is built on moving goalposts. I just don’t think it is a very good interpretive lens to get at what the book is saying.

Thanks…

Frank


#28

Yes the goalposts do move, at both the mainstream and fringe levels. But if historicism is to be abandoned as a sound paradigm, what is to be made of the time spans and their markers in those “time prophecies”?


(David) #29

Decent answer to an interesting question. I wonder how much further the question may be explored, though.

That was just the tip of the Iceburg Beres. Just an appetizer.


#30

Great! Sounds like you’re raring to go. Bring it on!


(David) #31

The true demolition of Catholicism ( mortal wound to the “Beast” ) is now taking place with the pandemic of pedophilia in papal ranks, not to mention the recent revelations of priests using nuns as sex slaves!

If the Roman Catholic priests, bishops, cardinals, and primates weren’t so anti-law (thou shalt not be a pedophile) they wouldn’t be in the pedophile predicament they’re in today. They’re lucky they’re only being sentenced to prayer and penance by the person really in charge. Joe pedophile public would spend time in prison, get his picture in the paper, and be forced to report his home address to authorities for the rest of his life. If I wanted to be a pedophile I’d be a Roman Catholic priest too.


(David) #32

Great! Sounds like you’re raring to go. Bring it on!

What would you like to know?


#33

Surprisingly tough question. How about starting with an exposé on some real flyover country – the two other time prophecies in Daniel 12:11,12 mentioned earlier by niteguy2?


(Robert Lindbeck) #34

Just in the last month a senior member of the the Catholic Church, former Archbishop of Sydney and 3rd ranking Cardinal in the Vatican (held the purse strings) has been sentenced to gaol time in Australia. Many thought this would not happen due to his stature in the church. Other perpatrators in the church have also been sentenced to sizable terms behind bars. Some have escaped legal punishment in this world due to death but I am sure there is a worse punishment awaiting them.
What is the graver wound - losing some political power but remaining pope (1798) or the loss of reputation and social influence (2000’s)? In all reality, at the time it occurred very few people would have been aware of the capture of the pope by Berthier however in contrast very few people would not be aware of the abuse scandals in Ireland, Australia and the US.
In general most historicist interpretations consist of an anchor event (begining or end). Then the search begins for an event to attach to other end of the time frame. It is entirely feasible to find two other events to tether the 1260 days or the 2300 days. If we believe we already have the answer we will stop looking, not just on prophecy but on other ideas also.


#35

Would love to see someone here give it a shot.


(David) #36

Beres Surprisingly tough question. How about starting with an exposé on some real flyover country – the two other time prophecies in Daniel 12:11,12 mentioned earlier by niteguy2?

You’re asking a lot. I’ll provide the structure that gets you on your way to understand the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. I won’t tell you everything I know because it wouldn’t be to your benefit. It is important for you to obtain your own understanding of the issues through study, reflection, and contemplation.

  1. The 1290 and 1335 days are years (year for a day principle).

  2. The 1290 and 1335 days have to do with the 70 weeks

  3. The 1290 and 1335 days are both counted from the abomination of desolation

  4. The abomination of desolation is connected with the prince who makes a covenant with the many for one week and brings an end to sacrifice and offering (Christ’s sacrifice) in the midst of the 70th week.

  5. Constantine is the prince who makes a covenant with the many (Roman Catholic church).

  6. That covenant is the Planetary week.

  7. The planetary week is based on an earth-centred heaven (a falsehood).

  8. Heaven is God’s throne and the earth is his footstool. The planetary week is a direct affront to God’s throne, His heavenly temple. Psalm 11 The Lord is in His holy temple, The Lord’s throne is in heaven; His eyelids test the sons of men.

  9. 1290 years brings us to the year 1615 when Galileo wrote his letter to the Grand Duchess Christina, a masterpiece dissertation (get Stillman Drake’s “Discoveries and opinions of Galileo” and read it from cover to cover). Read other books on the Galileo affair too. Nobody has correctly analyzed and understood the reasons for the extreme hatred of the Roman Catholic Church for Galileo. He was ultimately brought before the Roman Catholic inquisition, forced to recant, and sentenced to house arrest for the rest of his life. All because he wrote a book called the dialogue about the Ptolemaic vs Copernican views that Rome perceived as a violation of a decree issued by Cardinal Bellarmine at the request of the pope.

  10. 1615 is the end of the 70th week.

  11. In his letter to the Grand duchess, Galileo used the bible to support the Copernican sun centred view of the solar system which provoked the Catholic Jesuits and Dominicans.

  12. The following year in 1616 the pope instructed Cardinal Bellarmine (the Jesuit General) to notify Galileo (decree of 1616) that he must no longer hold or defend these ideas. No appeal was possible.

  13. Allow me to quote Bellarmine, “To wish to affirm that the sun is really fixed in the center of the heavens and merely turns upon itself without traveling from east to west, and that the earth is situated in the third sphere and revolves very swiftly around the sun, is a very dangerous thing, (we’re in grave danger folks) not only by irritating all the theologians and scholastic philosophers, but also by injuring our holy faith and making the sacred scripture false.”

  14. Make no mistake, Bellarmine’s reference to the the perceived injury to the holy faith was a euphemistic reference to the injury the planetary week would sustain if the earth switched places with the sun. Bellarmine’s holy faith is Roman Catholic speak for the so called “Holy Week” of Roman Catholicism. Galileo didn’t realize it at the time that he was upsetting the apple cart. He was tossing Humpty Dumpty off the wall. The Romans didn’t fail to miss the implications.

  15. The work of Galileo, Kepler, Tycho Brahe, Christiaan Huygen’s, and Isaac Newton was all about overthrowing the authority of the planetary week. The Jesuits and Dominicans were feverishly trying to stop it. They were waging a war against heaven that they couldn’t win.

  16. 1335 years brings us to 1660 when Christiaan Huygen’s wrote his system of Saturn with an explanation of its strange appearance. Christian’s publication brought the Ire of the Jesuit Honore’ Fabri who wrote a heated rebutted against Huygens in support of the Ptolemaic system. Saturn was the last planet that needed to be understood as it was part of the planetary week scheme. The anomaly of its rings lent support to the Copernican view. Saturn was the ancient god of the Romans (think Saturnalia) and having its name assigned to the sabbath day was an offence to God. There is only one Lord of the Sabbath and that Lord is Christ. Don’t bother trying to find an English translation of “the system of Saturn” or Fabri’s rebuttal. I have the only one that I know of.

17). With Isaac Newtons Principia in 1687 the battle against heaven was over. The Romans had been defeated.


#37

Interesting. Thanks for this scholarly timeline. Now I’m as confused as ever.


(David) #38

Beres: Interesting. Thanks for the scholarly timeline. Now I’m as confused as ever.

Don’t be. His number is 666.

Check out Galileo’s letter to the Grand Duchess Christina. It’s well worth the read. Guaranteed.


#39

An interpretation of Revelation &Daniel that neglects the eastern churches (7 churches of Revelation and the churches that originated from them) cannot be correct. Prophecy wasn’t only about the western churches (catholics and protestants),


(David) #40

Steve2: An interpretation of Revelation &Daniel that neglects the eastern churches (7 churches of Revelation and the churches that originated from them) cannot be correct. Prophecy wasn’t only about the western churches (catholics and protestants),

I think you might be mistaken Steve2. Constantine built his new capital at Constantinople which became the seat of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Nicea was held in the midst of the locale of the 7 churches of Asia (the east) that you refer to.

Steve2: Prophecy wasn’t only about the western churches (catholics and protestants).

Tell me what prophecy was about. If you have anything of substance let’s hear it.