To the Church In Keene, Texas: A Letter of Apology


Its worth pondering if this series of episodes would have happened if the author had been better at not “courting controversy”. A piece with that particular title was recently published wasnt it?


Seems like I wasnt the only one who thought that :smile:

(Gerhard Dr Svrcek Seiler) #67

Fresh kid ! I always post with my real name. Want to have a scan of the documents testifying my scholarly career ?

Whats about some cultivated speech YOUR mom should be in charge for ?

(Frank Peacham) #68

Having been a Pastor for many years in multi church districts, I know for a fact that the same sermon given to a friendly caring church is smoother and more inspiration then given to a church where you know many personally dislike you. The atmosphere of love and caring, one that tends to overlook mistakes and appreciates you–has a powerful effect on the pastor verses the negative effect of standing in front of a skeptical finding fault congregation. If many in the local church leadership wants you to fail, you are more likely to meet their expectations. Churches can love and aid their pastor or find fault with his leadership and blame the confusion on him.

(Frank Peacham) #69

A 1,000 years from now–I see you are very optimistic that change in church polices will be rapid?


I think you are right , I was too harsh and I don’t think this is the moment for that . So I apologize for that . Maybe in another blog we can talk about Adventist preaching . which for the most part is terrible with a few exceptions like Randy Roberts , Dwight Nelson , Henry Wright and a very few more .

(Rohan Charlton) #71

Preaching must be soooo hard. It wouldn’t come naturally to me at all. I’d probably lapse into just cracking jokes, get a few cheap embarrassed laughs and walk off in shame.

I admire anyone who’s willing to get up in front of an SDA audience!

(Ron Simpson) #72

Some times not playing gulf with the men in charge will get you in trouble.

[quote=“spectrumbot, post:1, topic:8430”]
I wrote the story in good faith, convinced that the details as I had been told them were correct, but in short, I got things very wrong.
[/quote]I don’t see how any one could have gotten the story right. From my experiance there is often misdirection involved. More than the usual “he said, she said and the truth being three separate points”. But some times a story that all, (unhappily in one case) agreeded to.
“You agree to quit, and this happened and that did not happen and we will give you two months wages, or else …”


I think pastor Scott is a good communicator , don’t get me wrong . I think she just didn’t do any serious exegesis on the texts , she didn’t bring much historical background to the texts , no good illustrations or good stories . in the time that we are living there are resources for that . The seminary needs to do a better job preparing pastors , specially on preaching and exegesis .

(SurprisedByGrace) #74

I want to say I agree due to your confession of being harsh, but I can’t agree with idea of “a very few more.” Roberts, Nelson, and Wright have television programs that reach a much wider audience the average pulpit doesn’t. It isn’t necessarily because those other pulpits are filled with bland preachers. There are many other voices, women and men, who can preach powerful, interesting and attention engaging sermons week after week. They don’t have a media presence, but they don’t lack in passion or skill. I can’t agree with “very few.” Are there many pulpits of dull preachers? Yes. But I know of preachers where preaching isn’t their strong point, but the people love and support them to the death. They make life changing and developing in roads into people’s lives by their careful attention to the people under there charge. Brilliant preaching isn’t the badge of excellent pastoring necessarily.

(SurprisedByGrace) #75

You said it much better 21 hours before my comments in the same vain. Should have read the whole list before submitting. Pastoring more of an art than a science.

(Elmer Cupino) #76

You must be a good pastor alright.

Now we are all in the same boat. Welcome to Spectrum. Stick around and join the conversation. We need your views. Looking forward to your posts.

(Cherry) #77

The pastor of my church is a great preacher, John Brunt! He was on TOSC and is a champion of women pastors. He can say so much in such a short amount of time and is full of stories and examples. He is retiring this year so has had a long career to hone his preaching craft. It does take time to develop your style.


Yes , pastor John Brunt os a great pastor . He has a PHD in New Testament besides being a pastor is a scholar , he has been a professor also . He is one of the most qualified pastors we have in the Adventist church , sad to know that he is retiring . Your church has had some of the best preachers , didn’t Morris Venden retired there also .

(Garnett Weir) #79

Justin, I think you are being unduly hard. Some Pastors are great preachers. Some are not. A pastor’s work has to be measured on the overall impact of his work at the church or churches. One of the most successful pastors that I have ever met, had a reputation that he could not preach. When he was assigned to my church we lost perhaps as much as 25 percent of our attendance. Sometimes he is preaching and one keeps wondering where he is heading. He was not charismatic either. He was a wise pastor though. In one period he did not preach for over four months, but he was always around at some time during the day, even though ours was not his only church. He was a loving, caring pastor who maintained strong rapport with kids and adults alike. He was very appreciative of the efforts of others, and would take every opportunity to build members self esteem. He showed respect for all, and was not afraid or insecure about seeking advice from his officers. He had an uncanny way of connecting with his members on a personal level. He may have appeared simple, but he was not. Of course the church blossomed and before you knew it, there was no space to seat the people. Plans had to be laid to expand the seating capacity by about 200 which was realized after he left. A new congregation which he initiated and developed was organized during his tenure, into a church with over 100 members. His record for baptisms at my church has remained unbroken for almost 30 years. At the send off for him at his transfer, women wept openly, and perhaps all were saddened at his departure. He was a GREAT PASTOR. One of the very best. So, Justin, not all pastors will be excellent preachers, but they should all endeavour to be great pastors.

(Jeremiah) #80

This just shows how ridiculous this whole feminism/women anything issue is. People get released from jobs all the time, even pastors, but you don’t hear anything about it. But, let a woman “pastor” get released, and all hell breaks lose. Even though her position is against God’s command.(Excessive. - website editor)

(Paul Kevin Wells) #81

[quote=“Justin, post:48, topic:8430”]
Senior Pastors spend most of their time just preparing for sermons , they have associates who do the rest of the work
[/quote]LOL There’s a enough work to go around for everyone on staff. There’s no need to bring into question the efforts of others.

(Garnett Weir) #82

If Jeremiah had said " Even though her position is in harmony with God’s command", would the editor have crossed it out and commented that the crossed out sentence was " Excessive"? . Editor, pleased be advised that there are two opposing views on the subject of women’s ordination. Although Spectrum’s editorial position appears to favour women’s ordination, it clearly is not shared by all your subscribers. In the interest of fairness, do not muzzle or hamstring the opposing side. The editorial action in crossing out the section of Jeremiah’s comment which indicates his position on the matter is not simply excessive. It was unnecessary, and an unwarranted use of editors discretion. It should be reversed.

(It is possible you are right about whether the webed would have crossed out the inverse, but I do not know for sure, and I was the one who crossed out the one you speak of. But you are making an assumption - that the webed would have failed to proceed equally. And you make that because you assume the webed would not proceed fairly. Then you use that assumption as an argument - and say the webed should not have crossed out what I did. This is not a reasonable argument. We are inconsistent all the time, for no other reason than we miss stuff and are humans, trying to apply policy. Because you see a point of view with Spectrum, you assume that extends to having a bias in moderating. What was my concern in the above case is that someone equated their viewpoint as the same as God’s. We try to draw the line here. And it certainly occurs with both liberals and conservatives. And, yes, we ought to treat both perspectives the same with our policing. But I will not reverse the decision. And your reasoning needs reconsidering. I will be nice though and not flag it as excessive :slight_smile: - website editor)

(Cherry) #83

Yes Morris Venden was also a beloved influential Pastor here at Azure Hills. We have been blest!

(Tom Loop) #84

I loved to listen to Morris Venden. I still have many of his tapes. To me his relationship theology is spot on and a good counterweight to last generation theology. Last generation theology is rooted in legalism and behaviorism. It doesn’t believe in forensic justification. Venden settled the issue of justification for me nearly 30 years ago. I will leave the SDA church before I will embrace LGT.