Two Models of Church: Which One You Choose Makes All the Difference

(David) #61

I agree with you Roadkill.

For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted. (Heb. 2:18)

though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. (Heb. 5:8)

I agree that God made the Orion through Christ (the Word). And I also think the constellations were very important (now we have GPS) for navigation, just not between heaven and earth. Never heard of the Orion “highway” before.

Ellen White had an uncanny way of making statements that can never be proven. I’m still waiting for the infamous Sunday law (over one hundred years and counting) but I’m not holding my breath!


Actually ‘highway’ was my own way of trying to describe the route from and to
‘Heaven’ that Christ is expected by some to take at the ‘second coming’ and return, through a very, very LARGE space that exists in the “M42” area of Orion.


You don’t have to hold your breath. In the United States the founding process and groundwork – or precedent – for a National Sunday Law established by a legislative action of a committee of the U.S. Congress – in this case dealing with the 1893 World’s Fair Columbian Exposition in Chicago for closing the Fair on Sundays – is already on the books.

(George Tichy) #64

The more I read Adventist discussions the more I see how detrimental it is to have a religious system based on extra-biblical sources. It creates so many controversies and we end up spending our time distracted by them.

In this sense, the writings of EGW have been really detrimental. They did not elucidate anything, they just triggered many controversies. I wish we could get back to discussing religion/theology using ONLY the Bible as reference. Just imagine how many issues would be eliminated and how much more relevant the conversations would be.

Sola Scriptura.

(Steve Mga) #65

Orion –
Wasn’t the “Orion” statement made when Ellen was in vision in the presence
of Joseph Bates, sea captain? He is to have exclaimed that her descriptions
of “stars” she “saw” were very accurate. [If this was the event.]
Learned about this in church school when a kid.

(George Tichy) #66

As I did too, you probably learned
about that story of holding that Bible for 2 hours, uh?
I never found a true proof of the event. Did you?

(David) #67

Just be thankful Bigfoot wasn’t around then or we’d really be in trouble!

Yes, that was a doozy George! My all time favorite was when she stopped breathing - evidence of a true prophet for sure :crazy_face:.

For how can this servant of my lord talk with you, my lord? As for me, no strength remains in me now, nor is any breath left in me.”
(Dan. 10:17)

@niteguy2, @GeorgeTichy


Não jogue o bebê para fora com água do banho!

(Kim Green) #69

FYI…Whitney H. sang a popular song on the “Prince of Egypt” (a retelling of the biblical story of Joseph) which might have been her “connection” to Egyptology. There does not seem to be any other “evidence” that she believed or practiced any form of ancient Egyptian practices.

As to the Egyptian sarcophagus…perhaps she simply enjoyed the “decorative” elements. There are African Americans in this country that relate to Egyptology because of the origination being in Africa. She may have felt the same…without any serious religious connotations.

(Kim Green) #70

The “extra-biblical” sources pop up even when the individual seemingly does not seem aware of it. Some of the conversations end up sounding as weird as the Mormons and/or Scientologists! Such obsessions with the “Devil” and “Prophecy”, etc, etc. The average person would think that it was all made up or craziness…and I don’t blame them.

(George Tichy) #71

Great sense of humor Mel. :+1:
Now I am finally understanding your language… LOL


[quote=“cincerity, post:69, topic:18439”]
There does not seem to be any other “evidence” that she believed or practiced any form of ancient Egyptian practices.

It’s not Whitney, alone, that I’m thinking of, but her music industry ‘handlers’.

(Kim Green) #73

There is a Jewish link in some African tribes:

I don’t find it ironic that Ms. Houston “developed” a “taste” for Egyptian art. You may not be old enough to remember the Black Power/Black Is Beautiful movements in the 60/70’s where many African Americans were interested in discovering more about their DNA roots and heritage. Many found a sense of pride in their roots to Africa and part of that was Egyptology and its art. I didn’t find anyone who actually took to the practice of the Egyptian religion. :slight_smile:

It hasn’t been until recently developed DNA testing that most African Americans have had any chance or any clue as to where their ancestry comes from. Unless, we have been in the same situation (largely due to slavery) we cannot know what that feels like. I have had a tiny taste in discovering that I have 2 African grandparents in many generations past. I sorrow that I will never know their names though I know roughly where they came from. There is no doubt that they were likely slaves- but I take pride that a very small part of Africa flows through my veins.

@elmer_cupino @GeorgeTichy

(Steve Mga) #74

The black girl from the State of Jones [a movie made about it] had a black
mother and a white father. She attended Oakwood College in its very early
Those DNA tests one sees advertised on TV helps us to recognize how
much Humankind is related to each other even though Nationalism is
promoted by Empire groups.
In World War One, it was three rulers related to Queen Victoria who went
to war against each other. England, Germany, Russia, and then embroiled
the rest of the world in their mass destruction and assassination of their
citizenry by the millions. And eventually laid their lands waste.

(Kim Green) #75

Interesting, Steve…didn’t know about her going to Oakwood.

Yes, we are all connected. I have a male Puerto Rican friend and female Mexican friend…we all share the same African area DNA- just in differing amounts. We were all astounded that we were connected in this way. If you were to look at my best friends and I…you would never guess in a million years!

(Ikswezdyr) #76

I find this only partially true; it depends on the church. All SDA churches are not alike–far from it. I would say the God is love model is the primary focus in the local church among members and in sermons; but the informational focus seems to be found mostly in evangelical meetings, tracts, books, etc. Many churches have frequent meetings and weekly potlucks that are social outlets. My local church is active in the community and offers various programs including opening up the facilities for homeless persons in the winter taking turns with other Christian churches in the area. We also have mission trips to help in other areas. This is true in most SDA churches in this area that I am familiar with as well as those where I visit on the other coast.

(Ikswezdyr) #77

I don’t find these examples as representative of my church, but I can see where you are coming from.

(Tim Teichman) #78


The good news is we all can! We are all from Africa.


Here is a situation:

I grew up half

(Kim Green) #80

You are stirring up the genome pot again, Tim…lol