Unity in Faith: Where Shall We Find the Strength to Carry Us as One Body to the End


(Patrick Travis) #21

FF Bruce and Stott are evangelicals.


(Patrick Travis) #22

Conservative, I would add.


(Thomas J Zwemer) #23

but not in the likes of Franklin Graham et al. While the cash hungry televangelists call themselves evangelicals they are from the pits of hell.


(Patrick Travis) #24

Tom,
I am referring biblical interpretive methods of theological liberals vs. conservatives. As far as basic methods used, Billy nor his son are theologians, but they would still follow the basic conservative principles of Stott & Bruce. If there is a variance it would be more of the tendency for Graham’s to “lean” towards dispensationalism though neither of them fully embrace/embraced it to my knowledge. I think Billy’s Presbyterian wife Ruth kept him straight on that. :slight_smile:
Hope all is good in Augusta!
Pat


(Patrick Travis) #25

I don’t disagree with your appraisal of most televangelist. The Graham’s have always had a very ethical, respected operation.


(Cfowler) #26

Thankfully, there are so many more pastors/teachers out there!
Unfortunately, these seem to be the “face” of all Christians. It’s such a false picture of what many Christians believe, who they are associated with, and who they learn from.


(Patrick Travis) #27

“Most” of the televangelist might be best described as without a hermeneutical method! :slight_smile:


(Steve Mga) #28

“and who they learn from.”
Don’t forget
3ABN
Hope Channel
Etc.


(William Noel) #29

I’m not sure if you were expressing a high or low opinion of the quarterly. My opinion of it has become so low that I barely look at it. Something that really drove my opinion down was becoming acquainted with an author who showed me what he submitted and how the review committed had mangled it so severely that what was attributed to him was significantly different from what he meant. Plus, I have an ethical difference of opinion with the editorial policy of devoting an entire day’s study to Ellen White’s writings and each day’s comments typically including one or more quotes when she told us we should be studying the Bible only.


(Thomas J Zwemer) #30

I have a low view of the quarterly. The editor is so. Full of himself that he must alter the submitted text to fit his ego and views. Notice the brethren have asked him not to respond to Spectrum. He has a serious foot in mouth disease. [quote=“Sirje, post:8, topic:17473”]
The
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(Sirje) #31

TOM, WHERE DID YOU FIND THAT QUOTE. I don’t remember saying that quite that bluntly; or maybe I was really frustrated that day.


(Thomas J Zwemer) #32

I have no idea how that got attached.Sorry.


(William Noel) #33

Many years have passed since I worked with Cliff Goldstein. Yes, he is strongly opinionated, but he is part of a larger structure that thinks similarly and is preparing a single text to be translated into multiple languages and circulated globally. That is why the timeline from submitted manuscript to publication is typically at least three years. The quarterlies are edited by a committee where there is a long history of “watering-down” what the authors have written out of fear that people in some part of the world will be offended by something, or that they may not understand a culturally-based description. My experience as a writer and editor gives me respect for the scope of their task. Even so, that leaves me very frustrated with their products.


(Sirje) #34

The sentiment fits.:grinning:


(credere) #35

As usual, so many words. I prefer the beauty and composure of the Anglican liturgical service, with its choral tradition, from congregational hymn singing to composed anthems. Perhaps then we would not be so obsessed with what exactly we all need to believe.


(Steve Mga) #36

At the Episcopalian church I sing in the choir –
they have 6 hymns, 4 Bible readings, several prayers.
That is over 200 readings from the Bible each year.
Prayers Of The People are offered by a person in the pews.
Composed of short prayers for many needs and persons followed
by Lord, Hear Our Prayer recited by all. Truly a prayer of the people.
Sermon is not based on the clock [45 minutes] but is usually only
15 to 20 minutes long.
Communion each week.
ALL participate in the celebration of worshiping The Trinity.


(credere) #37

Thanks Steve. You filled out what I wanted to say. It would be nice perhaps to have an Adventist Sabbath School with the old hymns and (real) bible study and the Anglican/Episcopalian church service. Now, if only. Cheers.


(Allen Shepherd) #38

Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

I don’t know that either side has the proper view of what this might mean. But certainly calling each other names and denigrating fellow believes does not fulfill the text.


(George Tichy) #39

You mean… calling others “fools?” :open_mouth: … LOL


(Kim Green) #40

I will agree with you, Allen, that it has devolved into some of this for sure. If there had been better and proper “Leadership” there could have been far, far, less of it. The church is comprised of individuals that derive their “leadership” from above them in the Pecking Order. The longer the fighting goes on…the more sad casualties will be seen. The buck stops at TW’s desk.