Vaccine Mandates & Religious Liberty

Sabbath School commentary for discussion on October 9, 2021

This week's Adult Bible Study Guide dips into the book of Deuteronomy looking for present truth. One of the hottest issues present in contemporary Christianity surrounds the question of science, God, and the duty to one's neighbor. And, incredibly, Monday's lesson brings up the topic of that age-old tension: 


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at http://spectrummagazine.org/node/11441

i absolutely think they are, especially the mRNA vaccines, which are just astonishingly complex and precise…so much knowledge of intricate systems was needed to develop them…but the viral vector vaccines are also amazing…

i think it’s exciting that our understanding has progressed to the point where we can use genetic manipulation reliably to our advantage…this reliability is possible because of the precision which god used to create our genetic and immune systems…

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Well, two experts on micobiology, immunology, acquired resistace to infections, have spoken. Wth their rich experience and awareness on immunisation and occult immunisation.

ANd thruthisfor freedom knows inexpensive and simple approaches to kocking outthis vius .

Obviously such knowledge is suppressed by Bill Gates, the Illuminati, the Jesuites and Wall Street
WE know about this worldwide conspiration.

Please, truthisforfreedom, let me share your knowledge, secretly !

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Have you tried to figure out why so many sane and logical people fail to see the lies of this plandemic ? Does it speak to the “darkness " of this deliberate plan to enslave the world under a one world government to “reset " humanity ? If one is unable to see the obvious, satanic influence, then they have bought into the " lie” that it’s in the best interest of your “neighbor” to mask and get injected " I don’t think people realize that this an attack on their God given rights to freedom and are being set up for the grand illusion of “world peace” through force. Doesn’t this fit into the scenario that one” cannot buy or sell" without the mark of the beast namely the mandated injections. As much as you and I understand the gravity of this present danger, many are oblivious and wish to remain ignorant of the pending doom trusting that governments are there to “protect” them. As Adventists, we worried about Sunday laws encroaching on our civil liberties but many are unable to recognize that this enforcement of restricting their freedom is much, much more sinister I can almost tolerate Sunday laws

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When your attention is solely on the Catholic Church and the Sunday laws that are supposed engulf the world, you tend to not notice how the very power that we’re afraid of is encroaching on the world. This is called brainwashing. :woozy_face:

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dave, it’s a question of balance and perspective…it may be true that the mark of the beast will employ some of the same methods that we’re seeing under the pandemic, but the pandemic, and the vaccines, are not the mark of the beast…what we have in the pandemic is a worldwide virus with real potential to destroy physical life…governments are mandating vaccines, and other measures, not because they’re trying form a one-world government and give you the mark of the beast, but in order to save as many lives, and businesses, as possible…notice that there isn’t a death decree attached to the vaccine mandates…there also isn’t a sunday mandate attached to the vaccines…

either we believe egw’s teachings on the mark of the beast, or we don’t…when we see her outlining forced sunday observance, in the context of the latter rain, as the impetus for the mark of the beast, we aren’t free to suppose anything other than forced sunday observance, in the context of the latter rain, leads into the mark of the beast, even if we think we see similarities in methodologies…

my advice is to protect yourself and those around you as much as you can by being vaccinated, seeing as how god has opened up this technology for our benefit, and trust that he will look after you when the time of the mark of the beast comes…rest in the assurance that if you are abiding in christ now, you will not miss, or be left out from, any of the developments that portend our final test…

our task now is to become fitted for the gift of the latter rain…whipping up hysteria in the church, at every opportunity that looks like an endtime event, isn’t our mandate…it doesn’t produce rest in christ, or readiness for when the true test comes…

No I don’t. I simply see the hysteria of alternate news being propagated by the absurd crazies on the internet who are pushing the insane notion that science is evil, that all government and private health institutions are out to destroy us, that somehow, only these “inlightened individuals”, such as yourself, have the answers and that the rest of us are being duped by all of these institutions who only exist to destroy us. Your willing to take things designed to remove worms from horses, but your unwilling to take something that will not only save the lives of those being vaccinated, but those that they come in contact with. This is a totally selfish act. I, personally, have no issue with you not being vaccinate, provided, that you are then willing to completely isolate yourself from the rest of society until this plague subsides. I wish I could honestly say that I care about those who chose not to be vaccinated, but if they choose to ignore the fact that 90+ % of the people dying from this virus are unvaccinated, and are not only making a choice not to avail themselves of a vaccine, one that was instigated by none other that Donald Trump, which in and of itself is a total dichotomy, then if they die from this virus, it with their own volition, but their exposing this virus to the rest of us, including children who are dying at a much higher rate now, then it is no longer their “choice” but it is a willful act of selfishness. God help them, because many of them are actually murderers because of their selfish behavior in the spread of this virus. Levitical law dictated that someone who was diseased must isolate themselves, “cover the lower part of their face” (masks) and ware tattered clothing (not sure what that is for). Suffice to say, if you don’t get vaccinate, that is fine, but then you need to remove yourself from society…otherwise your a selfish murderer…sorry but it is what it is.

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Dr. Christopher Rake was, only today, escorted out of the building at UCLA, where he’s been working for the last fifteen years - because HE REFUSES TO TAKE THE VACCINE, calling it an experimental drug. One of many in the medical field.

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We are now reliving Nazi Germany of 75 yrs ago We no longer have the control of our health "Big Brother " knows what’s best for you. The death of democracy The Nuremberg code be damned
Dave Okamura

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Near as I can guess, it could be because of the current democrat government setting we have in the USA. I can’t really speak to other countries because some are doing it right and some wrong. India, Sweden, and I think Japan are attacking the virus correctly, but certainly not Australia. I think some simply fall for the “plandemic” because Marxism tends to brainwash those that want more power and those that have an aversion to Capitalism. Wisdom and a mature critical thinking can be lacking as well as a lack of logic and common sense. There is likely much more to say to this but this is what comes to mind at the moment. The great Deceiver is recorded for his confusion and hunger to see whom he can devour.

So, if your contention that the mRNA treatment is not a vaccine, what about the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, which is developed around previous conventional vaccine protocols? If we all took the J & J, would that satisfy all of you who feel that most of the worlds medical community are all out to kill us or control us? Because I took an mRNA manipulated vaccine, will I somehow grow another arm or lose my hearing…or maybe my sense of taste…oh, that’s right, that comes with getting the virus.

I have heard some of the most ridiculous theories about how treatments for this virus are all part of a conspiracy. Any mainstream media reporter would kill to break this kind of big story, so why are none of them touching this. I worked for 50+ years in the media industry, they would salivate over breaking this kind of story. What doesn’t even remotely make sense is how many people must be in on it in order to foist it on the public. It is a given that the more people involved, the less likely a fraud can be perpetrated, someone will spill the beans…well you have millions of medical professionals most of which are saying “get vaccinated, either J & J or Pfizer” and either there are literally millions of medical experts who are willing to lie to us, or you conspiracy theorists are correct and millions of people are all out to get us, and most of the news media, the print media, magazine publishers and medical journalists all have to be complicit in this fraud. Even Dr. Malone did not say that no one should take the mRNA vaccine, He said he didn’t recommend it to people under the age of 30. And he is one of “your experts”.

[quote=“truthisfreedom, post:15, topic:22045”]
Ivermectin, which is suppose to be the great alternative, I read, has been discontinued by the Indian government. They did prescribe it and many of you globed onto the fact that the virus was subsiding in India, but what your numbers reported were people who had gotten the virus a month before the government started to use the ivermectin and none of these people had been given ivermectin. And as anyone who has looked at the statistics knows, this virus has a 2 month cyclical nature which no one seems to be able to explain. And in all places, including Brazil and India and other ravaged countries are all showing declines now in spite of the fact that in many of these places they are not vaccinating, nor giving ivermectin or anything else. The last report I heard is that India has discontinued the use of ivermectin stating that it was ineffective in the treatment. But…if you’ve take it, it may keep you from having worms.

I also wonder what you would have to say a bout the Merk drug that just petitioned to be given in an emergency capacity because it reduced severe illness and death in over 50% of those given it AFTER THEY CONTRACTED COVID? I suppose that is a conspiracy too. But just remember that ivermectin was probably created by the same industry that has created all of these treatments, including Pfizer. But, of coarse, they are all in on it.

The irony is that I don’t like big Pharma any more than the rest of you…they are greedy and self serving. But I know that taking vitamins and supplements will not protect me from this virus…period. My first wife got conned into this kind of craziness when she had cancer. She died a few months later. It is simply junk science.

…either way…I’m out of here.

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I will have to guess that this is fake news as I have heard the opposite. Did this just happen this week? I know their numbers have dropped so not much need for any medication.

It is because of those who have taken the injection. Viruses are mutating within them.

The jury is still out on this for me. As a truth seeker I rarely jump to conclusions too quickly. Ivermectin, initially as a veterinary medicine was developed through the joint partnership of Merck, Sharp and Dohme Pharmaceutical Company and The Kitasato Institute of Japan, an Antibiotic Research Group of Tokyo, Japan. If I was a gambling person I would put money on the new pill having some Ivermectin in it. If so, could be called Ivermerktin. :crazy_face:

I am sorry about what happened to your first wife. Cancer and the current virus however, are not likely to be similar in treatments regarding supplements and I certainly would not compare the two.
I just witnessed two friends that have succumbed to the virus. Both were in the hospital and that was the worst place to go for help as they refuse (because of $$$ and contracts) to use successful medications like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine.

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Dr Gerhard
Your sarcasm flies in the face of available medical information by the most renowned immunologists and virlogists in the world, Dr Malone being the inventor of mRNA is one of them. What is your specialty? If I thought you would watch it I would include a link of one of several of his videos where he provides detailed information on what went wrong at the FDA in the process of testing and approving these vaccines, but given your obvious biased attitude I am confident I would be wasting my time so I’ll skip the trouble.

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my guess is that vitamin and supplement manufacturers are as evil and greedy as vaccine manufacturers…i’ve noticed that many people who pedal quercetin don’t know it’s abundantly available in a wide assortment of plant-based foods…i’ve also noticed that they often run health food businesses, and stand to benefit if people suddenly bought supplements and vitamins en masse…

you would have more of a point if the CEO’s and other administrators of vaccine manufacturers weren’t themselves vaccinated with their companies’ vaccine products…but because they are, you don’t…

So, how far down this slippery slope are you willing to go? Human genetic engineering is ok?

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because there exists the possibility of unscrupulous abuse, i don’t think we can say that we should throw the entire technology out the window…

much of the food we eat is genetically modified to eliminate diseases and pests…even cancer and alzheimer therapy is now going the genetic route…genetics and immunology are now major fixures in modern medicine…i don’t think we should be turning the clock back, but maybe we should be imposing regulation to curb abuses…

i’ve had three shots, and i believe they’ve been one of my best decisions this year…as soon as I’m eligible for a booster, i’ll be taking one…i have no problems taking covid shots each year with my flu shot (i don’t think i’ve ever had the flu)…in fact i’m on the look out for other vaccines to take…i’m hearing now that the shingles vaccine might be a good investment (some of these vaccines you do have to pay for)…

i think we’re seeing now that the vaccines are not 100% in all cases, which is why exposure is still something to avoid…unvaccinated individuals carry more covid, and for longer…they’re just riskier than vaccinated individuals…this is why more and more ways are being found to keep the vaccinated and unvaccinated separated…

just today we heard that just under 90% of the covid cases in our ICU’s here in Alberta - which is all of our ICU admissions at this point - are unvaccinated cases…this means that if all of these people had been vaccinated, and able to avoid ICU, we’d be in a position to go ahead with cancer surgery, treat car trauma and childbirth trauma, etc…all of this, and much more, has been put on hold for the past few weeks, due to covid cases in unvaccinated individuals…

whatever our suspicions of government motives, the fact remains that vaccination, as imperfect as it is, is the best tool we have to avoid covid hospitalizations and ICU admissions…if this fact weren’t so evident, we wouldn’t be seeing the strong crescendo towards mandates, which will soon be required even for air travel, and most hotel admissions, at least in those hotels 4-star and up worth staying in…it’s especially true that if people were dying en masse from vaccinations, there wouldn’t be such strong public support - over 70% - for vaccine passports…over 80% of eligible people in Canada have now received at least one vaccine shot…there’s no going back…

we have heard many reports that ivermectin ingestion hasn’t been working…in some cases, it’s caused poisoning and deaths…in many cases, unvaccinated individuals, usually in rural Alberta, have turned to ivermectin initially, only to find no relief…this is when they make a bee line to the hospitals in the cities, where they’ve been plugging up our ICU’s for weeks…

fortunately, though, the worst seems to be over…Alberta is finally turning the corner on our 4th wave…

I’m thrilled for you. There are so many different anecdotal scenarios. Everybody reacts differently. Vaccines, on the whole, have kept populations from some very bad diseases and this one may too; however, it’s not like any other vaccine we’ve ever had. no one knows the ultimate outcome. The fact that so many doctors and nurses refuse to get it is concerning. The other thing that makes no sense, is the denial of natural immunity once you’ve had covid. According to the mandates, there is no sun thing. This is exactly what all the other vaccines are based on (except the flu which evolves every year).

So you’re vaccinated to the hilt, but don’t you think others should be able to make that decision themselves… Bullying into acceptance goes beyond any health concerns, and has become a matter of government power grab, while those making the rules consistently ignore them.

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what’s to know…the mRNA from the vaccines are introduced into a cell’s cytoplasm and transcribed into the spike proteins that cover only the covid virus’ surface…these spike proteins then illicit an immune response in the form of antibodies that neutralize the spike proteins that illicited them, in addition to the spike proteins encountered in a subsequent infection…that’s it…there’s no mystery…what we’re looking at is a clear understanding and application of demonstrated biological principles…

there’s no ongoing mystery over whether someone vaccinated will fall over dead in two yrs through some unknown cause…if a proposed mechanism of action is clearly demonstrated, as in the case of the covid vaccines, what basis is there to imagine biologically impossible scenarios just because endless time hasn’t transpired…does the passage of time change impossibility into possibility…if we know that non-life doesn’t generate life, do we sit there and entertain seriously the possibility that non-life will general life if several billion yrs go by…

what’s going on with these vaccines is a lot of indecisive, scientifically ignorant individuals with diseased imaginations (as egw would say)…they’ve resonated strongly with one another’s paranoia to levels of unrealism approaching little blue men traveling back and forth between the moon and earth, who are invisible only because we don’t possess the technology to detect them…and i have to say that the hysteria is most pronounced in the MAGA crowd, who’ve also swallowed the idea that the 2020 election was stolen by scheming democrats, assisted by China and Venezuala, and that the Jan 6 Insurrection was both a tourist excursion and an Antifa rally at the same time…

i’m seeing a strong pattern of delusion susceptibility here - it’s all completely unreasonable…and the fact that so many millions of people have lost their minds cannot change this fact…if we must see end-time overtones in what we’re seeing all around us, i think it’s the fact that we can no longer trust that apparently normal people have a firm grip on reality…the only thing we can depend on now is our own knowledge of our own connection to god, which we’ve gained over decades of earnest study and personal effort…it’s too late now to try to see rationality in where very many people are at…

So… mixing animal and human DNA to make “better humans” … ok?

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i think it depends on the demonstrated effect achieved…for instance, i see no harm in the type of gene editing that increases yield in crops like rice and canola…it’s a micro variation of crossing red and white flowers to create pink ones…even crossing tomato genes with a gene that happens to occur in fish in order to preserve shelf life for the tomatoes in cold storage spaces seems ok…

but what i think most adventists agree on is that we don’t want to see amalgamation of man and beast…we don’t want to see someone’s individuality and prospects in life subsumed into the life of an animal…we don’t want to see humanity genetically animalized…