Vaccine Mandates & Religious Liberty

How come you didnd find this? It took me about 30 seconds to find it AND READ 75% OF IT. I will be checking the references soon after this.

Sirje, I’m not from the U.S. I wouldn’t presume to comment on issues I know nothing about.

I come from a country without a written constitution.

There ya go! Tune in and hear the facts. Reading the title and quickly judging is not research. LOL!!

I heard a great statement today and it has everything to do with this article in Spectrum. “The “vaccine” is not the issue of the day. It is the compulsion to take it.” Ron Kelley of Berrien Springs Michigan Village SDA Church.

George, I think you’re overlooking the fact that conservative sources are not credible sources on this anti-vax subject…the MAGA mantra has expanded to include not only The Big Lie - that Biden stole the election from Trump - but the notion that Gates, Fauci and the vaccine companies are on a quest for world domination, and so evidence for vaccine efficacy is by definition suspect…

the conservative world now is unconnected to objective truth…conservative sources needed to be read very critically, and balanced against more moderate sources who don’t have MAGA axes to grind…you cannot take at face value what you hear or see in conservative media now, and it’s been this way for some time…

i’m saddened to see Andrews’ Village Church, which i attended as a kid, miring itself in the anti-vax mvt…i’m especially saddened to see Ron Knott’s involvement (we were classmates at South Lancaster Academy and AUC)…but if the vaccine isn’t the issue of the day, you wouldn’t know it…i’ve seen literally thousands upon thousands of conservative sources attempting to discredit the miracle of the vaccines in the face of the clear fact that hospitals are still being overrun with covid cases in unvaccinated individuals…as i was just saying to George, conservatism - both in the U.S. and Canada - has become detached from reality…how long will it be before moderates and liberals follow the same path…we cannot know…but we can know that the only safe course for now is to stay away from the MAGA crowd…


Time will tell the truth of this experiment. The control groups are vast. In the past, who would have thought that Australia would turn into a totalitarianism regime. And now, will the USA? Canada is socialist so the mindset has pretty much been set up there.

There are no social issues that stand alone. Everything is connected. After each blunder of the current administration, our attention is directed to yet another issue. It doesn’t matter if it’s another blunder, as long as it takes the attention away from the current one. The covid crisis was a gift to the present aministration they can pull out every time something gets botched up. Fauci will come out with yet another reversal of a previous mandate (another word for “order”), and the media is off an running, leaving most recent mess up to die a lingering death in “techdom”.


Canada isn’t socialist…it’s a democratic federation of provinces and territories…that Canada is socialist is just another truthless meme circulating in and by the MAGA crowd…


ワク●ン推進第一人者が警告「免疫が永遠に消滅する」 - ニコニコ動画 After watching this I would like those who support this gene therapy to produce a video to contradict the information presented. Facts only please I’m just the messenger and doing what we’re being asked to do warn the world of a pending catastrophe
Dave Okamura

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You see Jeremy, this is where I think the real sad part in our society is - we are so divided and fragmented that even us, people that have a lot in common when it comes to our beliefs and even our cultural make up have 180 degree opinions - tthe main factor in our differences is most likely media propaganda. (I went to AUC one year, my little brother went to the AUC academy, you may even know him, not sure, my parents lived across the street from the Knotts and were good friends with Ron’s parents.
I had the feeling the name “conservative” (The thinking conservative) would trip you up, did you actually read the interview? What is important here is not the name of the publication but what Dr Malone actually has to say. His invention (mRNA) is the source of our discussion and he specifically responded to the “fact checker” spin you took as the truth. I am still hoping that you get off this left/right train to hell before it is too late.


Thank you, David.

That was excellent.

Sorry my friend, but this is nonsense.


no i didn’t…there’s no chance i’ll read anything that says conservative or GOP on it…i’ve seen enough to know that anything having to do with Trump or MAGA is bad news…millions of people have been overcome with delusion coming from these sources…they aren’t to be toyed with…


You are totally right. Very interesting… I will even say that it is plainly weird because in the SDA end time scenario, the persecutors will use the same type of arguments to go after those who keep the commandments of God. So it seems that when it is in our “perceived” advantage we don’t have any problem using the same rhetoric as our “enemies”. :thinking:

Did I say it was weird?

Ok, so I don’t really subscribe to the SDA end time scenario.

But I guess if I did, my stance wouldn’t concern me as it would facilitate those end time events.

I remember attending a lecture at Southern University (as a guest) where they were discussing the virtues of the death penalty. I was surprised at the number of students who were in favour of it. I asked the lecturer after the lesson why this was so, and he told me, many people want to hasten the end time events to speed up the return of Christ and the death penalty was a key policy for this to happen.

Yes, it is a proper question… but I understand if you don’t want to answer it…

The minority refuses to cooperate? Oh, I see… So, people should put their wellbeing (and of their families) on the line without having any question like good little soldiers. If they don’t they are accused of not cooperating.

An interesting way of thinking that we could expect from a totalitarian regime not from a democracy.

Hold on here! Don’t you know that many people who are opposed to these vaccins are doctors, nurses and other medical professionals who are not anti-vaxxers at all?

Why this mischaracterization?


That’s what happens when we compartmentalize the issues. We don’t see how everything is connected to everything else.

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if people wanted to take their well-being off the line they should be vaccinated…there’s a lot of evidence that vaccines are safe, and effective…

on the other hand, if they don’t believe the news, they need to stay in their own little enclaves, where they pose little risk to others…

the bottom line is we cannot insist on a right to infect others, just because we don’t care whether we ourselves are infected…there are many people with pre-conditions and comorbidities that could make infection a virtual death sentence…

it’s only because of your emotional attachment to conservative values that you don’t see this, Nymous…take a look around you…it’s mostly conservatives who’ve embraced the anti-vaxxer mvt…take a visit to your local hospital and see for yourself that it’s mostly unvaccinated people plugging up ICU’s…it’s not people suffering from adverse vaccine side effects…

the overwhelming majority in the medical profession are onboard with the vaccines, and are leading through example…i’ve seen interviews of some of the anti-vaxxers insisting on their right to infect their patients in hospitals (they avoid saying things in quite this way, of course)…most of them are Republicans…i think this says it all…

this anti-vax issue isn’t being thought through rationally…it’s mostly a political-cultural affiliation…there’s nothing noble in it…


You are right here… though it is normal to be oblivious at times since it is hard to have the proper perspective on everything. This is why it is important to think in terms of principles. For example, don’t do to others what you would not like them do to you.

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i’m not so sure this is really a Liberal Party interview, although, keep in mind, liberal leanings can be just as blinding as conservative ones…ideally, a moderate perspective combines the best of both worlds, while eliminating the bad…but the point is, Jan Jekielek is a senior editor with The Epoch Times, which is overtly pro-Trump and, more recently, has focused on voter fraud (with no evidence)…it’s really a sounding board for GOP themes that we know are false…in reality, it’s doubtful whether Malone would consent to a non-conservative interview…his themes are so aligned with right-wing conspiracy theories, and he’s constant martyr self-image is so pronounced, it’s difficult to see how he could survive anything hard-hitting outside his protective conservative cocoon…

as for this interview excerpt, i think it demonstrates a lot of what is wrong with the typical anti-vax critique…there’s an over-emphasis on every piece of evolving medical advice, as if these represent contradictions, and as if the phenomenon of delta hasn’t forced legitimate, and expected, reevaluations…the anti-vax crowd wants to have it that in order to be credible, and truthful, health authorities must state emphatically and comprehensively everything there is to know about the epidemic and the vaccines from their onset, without ever making adjustments based on new, emerging evidence…any adjustments are seen as evidence that the vaccine roll-out has been premature; that important corners were cut; that the vaccinated are being used as guinea pigs; and that the social contract implied between medicine and society has been broken, meaning that health authorities simply cannot be trusted, which in turn means they’re obviously out to dominate the world by forcefully curtailing individual freedoms, or making a profit at the expense of everyone’s lives, or both…in some corners, the vaccines are even presented as the means of mass extinctions in order to save the planet…

it’s all so much nonsense and conspiracy, but to my mind, it may represent one of the more important legacies of covid: vast numbers have succumbed to shocking levels of delusion…that is, the wholesale delusion we’re seeing now, even more than the spectre of a sudden world shut down, may be the true harbinger of the quality of life the 144,000 will face in the future…specifically, i do feel that large swaths of society have lost their minds, first because they cannot accept that trump lost in 2020 (as if anyone interested in truth and democratic principles would vote for him), but second, and perhaps more importantly, because they cannot believe that the medical profession has performed an incredible feat of technical innovation with the vaccines, and that their motives have been to benefit society…all of this is superimposed onto platforms of concern for voter integrity and individual freedoms, which provide nothing more than sufficient, and unfortunate, cover for them to delude themselves that they are noble heroes taking a firm stand against world domination and socialism, in the tradition of america’s 18th century heroes in the Revolutionary War, which they very much aren’t…

what i feel particularly saddened by is the fact that so many adventists are being swept up in the various layers of this delusion…and the question i ask myself is, if relatively obvious delusion is so clearly overpowering, what is going to happen to the church when demons no longer remain invisible and silent, and when satan himself impersonates the 2nd coming of christ…i don’t think the future looks good, given what we’re seeing now…there seems to be very little strength in our church…

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Sorry, that was intended as a joke :blush: - Thanks for reading part of the interview however. While you are now saying: “ideally, a moderate perspective combines the best of both worlds” in your previous post you also said: “… there’s no chance i’ll read anything that says conservative or GOP on it…”
How do you manage a moderate perspective when you fully admit to be unwilling to even consider one side?

I purposefully included part of the interview that dealt with your previously published “fact checker” reference, that was the context for my reply to you, but instead of acknowledging any of Robert Malone’s own comments on the topic and how the media handled the story, you went 100% negative on him saying he will not do a non-conservative interview and then proceeded to give us your own opinion on the “anti-vaxxer” crowd and their nonsense and conspiracy theories. Is this your balanced approach?
It is actually the liberal media who will change facts and will not interview him instead

I don’t know who is more deluded here, time will tell I am quite confident, but in the interim you should at least consider your own responsibility and role in creating a subclass of people (“antivaxxers”, many of the Seventh Day Adventists) who are being told they have no right to safeguard their own health, a basic human right gives to us all by God himself.