When Conflict Arises

I fully support your proposal.
Why don’t you contact TW first, asking him if he would agree to come? That would be interesting…
I am already sure that Dan Jackson would come, and LLU wouldn’t have any difficulty promoting such a spectacle.
(Good luck with TW…)

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George –
TW would HAVE to have Questions and Comments presented First so he could
decide Yes or No on each one prior to the event.
Or have his handlers screen them at the event.


Steve, you already know that I have absolutely no expectation or hope that such an even will ever happen. People with TW’s personality are way too afraid of situations like that because they cannot work outside certain boxes. And the fear of the unknown just terrifies them.

When they walk in a room full of people they must know exactly what will happen, what will be said/asked. They must be in full control, because they are control freaks. They usually do not like to be asked tough questions, or being accountable in any way.

Does it ring a bell?.. :wink:


11/13/18 #5 (24)

Context is everything.

To be an Adventist currently means giving at least tacit support to the idea that, in the end, God Himself must use brute force to secure His government.

It’s all downhill after that.


George, in two remarkable paragraphs, you have described the plight of the US of A and our church. The tragedy is that neither has an adequate defense against such persons once they grab the controls.

Ring, ring, ring.

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Ted Wilson is not interested in conflict resolution unless it is resolved by capitulation or dismembership. He has the office, therefore the right to call sin by his standards. He is willing to declare and use Ellen White as a canon full bore.


Cassie Re. #23
“… God Himself must use brute force to secure His government.”

Understood literally OK, but as you say, “Context is everything.”
Can you imagine people who hate God having to spend eternity in His presence?
An alternative (and false vindictive teaching) is eternal hell-fire torture. Neither are acceptable
to God.
From Eden to Calvary, down to the present, God lovingly seeks to redeem His creation.
God’s final ‘strange act’ in dealing with sin is NOT one of “brute force to secure His government”, but an act of mercy for people who proudly chose not to accept His friendship and
amazing grace.
God created us in His own image; the corollary is that we have returned the favor.


You are right, the two situations are very similar, leading to a crisis - if not already IN a crisis. I am amazed and extremely concerned that so many people still don’t see the dangerous situation those two individuals have put us in, and the disaster ahead down the road if it’s not all reversed asap.

I hope that 2020 will be the year of awakening for many, after seeing/suffering the results of falling for demagoguery and voting for people who can manipulate but cannot lead.


One thing he cannot do is to prevent us from attending a good church. And he won’t be able to close all churches that he dislikes. I hope that the “sanctuary will be cleansed” no later than in 2020, or earlier of possible. :wink:


11/13/18 - #10 (30)

Meant friendly: what I really can’t imagine is why we continue to trot out that boring, insipid storyline, decade after weary decade.

It amounts to a massive failure of the spiritual imagination, in my opinion.

Yes, we only believe God intends to hell-fire torture people for a limited amount of time…and that He stirs them from the oblivion of the grave in order to carry out that hell-fire torture.

How is that not vindictive?

It’s not the hell-fire torture that disturbs us, it’s the “eternal” part.

God who?


(Citation: Furthermore, from what I’ve heard, there is a split within the “Church” in China that begs the question of unity within China. ) Does anyone has specific (-> clear) details on this so-called “split” in China?. Thanks for

Thanks for the reply Cassie - post #30 - ending with “God who?”

What I’m trying to get my head around is the kind of God you (don’t ) believe in.
Care to shed light on the puzzle?

My dad was for a period of time builder for the Ill Conference.He supervised the building of a new South Side Church.A the dedication the conference president invited the Alderman of that area to attend. the seating was such that they seated the Alderman next to dad, thinking these two worldly men would be at ease with each other. the program listed the Conference president as bishop. The alderman said to dad I didn’t know that Adventists had bishops. Dad said, they don’t but we try to humor him. Shortly there after the President suddenly died of a heart attack. One of the Conference sec. Was the advocate for a friend to be the next president.,He said this man knows the agenda of the recently departed… The Union Conference President replies maybe the Lord had all He wanted of that agenda. A President was selected out of the Ill. Conference.

Term limits have a variety of endings.


11/14/18 - #3 (34)

  • Love doesn’t need torture to secure compliance

  • Love is restorative, not vindictive.

  • Love is patient, not wrathful

  • Love is wise.

  • Love nurtures.

  • Love waits long for the Harvest

  • Love delights in the growing maturity of its children.

  • Love loves a Great Story!


Officers of the China Union Mission should be able to answer your query. CUM president Robert S. Folkenberg Jr met with a group in Loma LInda where he mentioned in general about two groups of SDA Christians in China: 1) government recognized 2) underground movement. Group 3) would be GC compliant.

Thank you. It would be noble if the official church (until now still the GC…) could up-date and elaborate a more detailed history on the following (public) page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China
Also in the net exists another outdated Website http://www.adventisminchina.org
GC may keep the development in the PRC under lock, but this is an old-fashioned attitude

I wonder if there were really only one group masquerading as group 1, 2 & 3. Perhaps we can use the same model worldwide? Then our church will have unity throughout the globe. :wink:

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Number 1) is the Three-Self Patriotic Movement, a State-regulated and controlled protestant body (roof organisazion). Together with the China Christian Council (CCC) they form the state-sanctioned Protestant church in mainland China.

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I just finished a Google search on the Ballenger affair. His argument was that within the Veil found in Hebrews meant within the Most Holy Place . The brethren disagreed and appealed to Ellen White. Her reply was it was dangerous to challenge the Spirit of Prophecy. Ballenger had his credentials removed and was disfellowshipped to boot. The SDA position is that they are people of the. Book. Ted uses it as a prop. It is absolutely clear that within the veil means within the Holy of Holies. this is made clear in Ph 2: 5-11 in which Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father. Is there a more HolyPlace .? Nothing has changed in GC power and the use of Ellen White even over the plain word of Scripture.Post Glacier View was teeth.or fangs.


The split into more than one group of SDAs in China is real. Incidentally, the same is also true in Communist controlled Vietnam: 1) state-recognized and 2) underground.
Regarding the compliance issue, a retired Chinese pastor quipped: “Leave them alone. Weren’t SDA churches in China better off without GC intervention?”