George,
Let’s not pre-empt Elder Ted Wilson’s possible participation in a week-end conversation with LLUC pastoral staff and members, if he were invited. Please correct me if I’m wrong but, to my knowledge, he has yet to take the pulpit at LLUC, La Sierra University Church, Azure Hills (?)… Glendale City SDA… (?) Be that as it may, aren’t you in a better position than I to recommend to those in charge of worship in one of these locations for them to send GC president Ted Wilson an official invitation? WDYT?
joselito, sadly, TW has painted himself into a corner with respect to anything going on in PUC, and probably CUC and much of NAD…even if he were invited to speak at LLUC, would anybody in the congregation show up…
nothing short of heartfelt confession and a reversal of battle creek and san antonio are going to cut it now…without these, TW is going to be forever remembered as a divisive figure whom people want to see step aside…
Kellogg noted that when Ellen White was clearly wrong, instead of admitting the truth of the matter, she would use a “crawl out hole”. (She never gave up this M.O.)
She had already acknowledged unwittingly that within the veil meant the inner sanctum:
“… the holy of holies within the veil,” ( [Early Writings, p. 55.1 )
Just like Desmond Ford (and his wife, Gil?), Ballenger was disfellowshipped for being right.
This is the death of Seveth Day Adventism. People may attend church on the seventh day, but the substance of classic Adventism has been totally discredited and polluted by investigation and reprisals. Let us say Sabbath honored feather than kept.
I don’t know what you mean by, “take the pulpit.” Please explain what you really mean.
At this point, after all the visible ugly manipulations we have seen him doing, I am not sure that anyone is still interested in discussing the case with him. He has not showed any attitude different from “imposing his will and views.” Who would interested in more of the same at this point? I, personally, am absolutely not.
The Fords were never disfellowshipped or dismembered ( ). At least Des was member of the PUC Church until a few years ago when he moved back to Australia and asked to be “taken off the list of saints”…
you are sadly mistaken, tom…classic adventism, as laid out in egw, is never going to die…while there are many who have deserted the faith they once rejoiced in, there are always going to be those who remain true to the conviction they can sense and feel in its principles, regardless of what any or all theologians say…
That is very miss use of the word Truth. one does not need to be a theologian to know that Ellen White was a master at the big con. She conned Joesph Bates, she took possession of the Corn Field vision and elaborated on it. Her health message was riding a wave as was her counsel on education. Her church history used the best of available sources. look what happened to the Life Of Paul. One does not need to cite the White Lie! Fred Veltmann commissioned by the GC clear demonstrated the misuse of sources in the Book Desire of Ages. Don Mac Adams did the same with Great Controversy. Dr. Kellogg was a threat so she had him destroyed., The 1919 Bible Conference was just a start that Ended the career of the President of the GC.
As it was in the days of Noah so shall it be at the return of the Lord of Hosts. Tell me how Ted Wilson is going to ensure the Lord of a 144,000.
well, i don’t think TW is going to be able to ensure anything…after-all, he’s proven to be unfaithful to his trust: he’s allowed a small majority to run roughshod over a substantial minority over an issue that has no biblical merit…this isn’t wise, effective leadership, no matter how you look at it…
personally, though, i think the church will sort out the mess we’re in eventually…dan jackson seems to have a clear eye for what’s right…i have confidence in our leaders in NAD…
Isn’t it ironic to be GC compliant, the church has to be non-compliant with the government? So it is alright if it were to happen to others but not OK when it happens with the GC? Very childish would you say? When will this obsessions to compliance all end?
even in John’s day the seven churches were drifting away from the pure Gospel into cultish isolation. Adventism is quick to point faults in others but fights like hell to clam it’s role as the only final source of truth. And mades that truth about a Pentecostal woman. Holding on to a long discounted error of days and years. The Cross not time is the focus of our redemption. even so come Lord Jesus.
I reached a point where I am becoming gradually more Christian and less SDA. As a Christian I still have options of attending a Church for worship and for interaction with other Christians. But I don’t have to spend time with anything that is not Bible based. Theology in general is interesting, but nothing really important.
And this is exactly the problem. I have no interest in that “classic adventism” though I know it very well, I was even trained to be a pastor (Class of 1972). But now, for about 38 years or so, my only interest is in Classic Christian Faith based on Sola Scriptura.
This is the price paid we pay for the root of all evil, the loss of empathy, a function of unresolved sibling rivalry that never leaves our psyche but only takes different facades, the worse being religion.
As Blaise Pascal have been known to say, “Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it for religious convictions.”
Expect the unexpected. Members of GYC and ASI chapters happen to be active around here. It’s not unlikely for them to swell the crowd of attenders at LLUC if they were told in advance about Elder Ted Wilson’s projected visit. I’ve seen this happen at White Memorial Church when Doug Batchelor was guest at a rally of sorts. Those who haven’t met them in person, TW and DB, might even learn to like them. Why not? Who knows?
It must be obvious by now that English is not my primary language. I’m sorry for not making my meaning clear. Invited to preach… may be? In my country, a visiting church worker from the local mission headquarters can drop in anytime without prior notice and may expect to be requested to participate in the service.as an honored guest, at the very least be given an opportunity to say a word of greeting and encouragement to worshipers.
ORATE Take the pulpit
PREACH Take the pulpit
PROCLAIM Declare from the pulpit
Well, and I was thinking that I was not getting something there, because English is not my primary language either. I understand what you said. In Brazil (where I lived 39 years after coming there at age of 10 months, from Europe) the procedure is the same as you described. If any “important person” shows even unannounced, oh yes, he is going to “take the pulpit.”
It happened to me once. Not because I was any “important person;” actually I was spending a weekend with friends in a city about 2 hours from our home in São Paulo, and went to church on Sabbath morning. About five minutes before the SS ended, someone came ans told me they wanted me to preach, that the preacher for that day was just an Elder. I declined, mostly because I had no sermon on me. But I was given 15 minutes to come up with something…
Impromptu sermons were not my specialty… I used to spend ca 12 to 14 hrs studying to prepare a sermon. Man, that was tough. Those 15 minutes were barely enough for me to find a text to preach on! And then…, well … I had to “invent a sermon” on the go. That was the craziest think I’ve ever done! My sermons were always short 20-25 mins max. That one I guess was the shortest ever, I believe 17 minutes…
Now, back to TW, I don’t think he would ever come for an open conversation with people around here. He likes to preach, not to do town hall meetings.
i don’t doubt that this is true…but stuffing the church with GYC enthusiasts wouldn’t represent a local congregation showing up…randy roberts likely sees his local congregation as his primary responsibility and probably doesn’t think they’d be edified by hearing TW…
do GYC and ASI meetings invite randy or sandy roberts to speak to them…my guess is they’re only interested in doug batchelor or stephen bohr, or someone else who believes PUC is in apostasy…
He is a member of the LLU Board. so give him a chapel period. Ana title Why have a pre judgment, judgment. Give Him a Text the parable of the Wheat and Tares.
Shall we continue our separate conversations, listening only to people who already agree with us?
Sorry I gave the impression our GYC and ASI sisters and brothers who fellowship on the LLU campus might threaten to breakthrough the fortified walls of LLUC if they were to hear of the GC president’s visit.
ideally, we’d be listening to people whether they agree with us or not…but there’s something about religion and politics that prevents that from happening…in the situation in our church with WO, i’ve concluded that conservatives are so deceived, nothing is going to break through to them…the more evidence they see that god calls people irrespective of gender, the more they steel themselves up, just like the circumcision jews, who even after the council of jerusalem clung to their meaningless ways…
personally, i think randy roberts should open up LLUC to TW, even if only GYC-ers come to listen to him…MH supporters are never going to see the light if they’re constantly isolated, and left to fester among themselves…i don’t really see what’s preventing chris oberg from inviting TW to la sierra…and why isn’t sandy roberts inviting him to speak somewhere in SECC…
something’s got to give…something has to break down the middle wall of partition between us…
). At least Des was member of the PUC Church until a few years ago when he moved back to Australia and asked to be “taken off the list of saints”…