When Religious Liberty Becomes Meaningless

The internet…you know that massive bunch of pipes, as described by an Alaskan Senator, has done more to destroy this country than to help it. All of the tinfoil hatted people seem to have found a voice and a way to influence the vulnerable among us who simply can’t differentiate fact from fiction.

I will post a response to just one of these mind numbing “alternative self medication” ideas that has been propagated. That India was seeing miraculous results from the horse de-wormer and that it is somehow a miracle drug. Well, in fact, is has been discontinued along with the other drug that our illustrious past president took as preventative treatment. We all know that didn’t prevent him from getting Covid 19. If your having trouble with worms, this might be an option, but if you’ve come down with Covid, I would suggest that your best option would be to get real honest doctor provided help, and hope you can obtain the Merk pill that has just been anounced.

In case your still believing the stories about the wormer, here’s the real story. India has discontinued using it because it doesn’t work. And on another lunitic fringe story about the number of people reported dying on the VAERS covid 19 vaccine database after receiving the vaccine, you’re missing one important point These numbers are raw unaccounted for deaths. The entire number of about 6,000 people dying after receiving the vaccine out of almost 400,000,000 doses, is everyone who died from a car crash, hit by lightening, died from cancer, died because their spouse was fed up with them and shot them, died from every cause. In this pre-determined period after the vaccination, the VAERS database is required to report any and all deaths. The actuarial tables say that for that time period, and the demographic breakdown. This number of deaths would have been expected had there been no pandemic, no covid 19 and it was an expected number, regardless of vaccines or no vaccines. They have further, investigated and found that there are only about a dozen cases where they have found that any of the vaccines or mRNA injections have caused any deaths. They believe that about a dozen deaths “might be attributable” to the J & J vaccine, which is actually a vaccine, unlike all the hubbub raised over whether the Madera or Pfizer vaccines are actually vaccines.

Here’s the latest on India and the horse de-wormer:
India’s governing medical body has endorsed a new policy ending the use of ivermectin as for managing COVID-19

SCIENCE | THE WIRE – The Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR), India’s leading medical research body, has revised its ‘Clinical Guidelines’ for COVID-19.

Specifically, it removed mention of two drugs that a panoply of experts and non-experts had widely used and promoted both in India and worldwide, and which had also been ceaseless sources of controversy: ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine (HCQ).

The previous version of the national COVID-19 treatment protocols, dated May 17, 2021 (the one from which ICMR dropped the use of convalescent plasma) suggested that ivermectin and HCQ “may” be used despite “a low certainty of the evidence”.

This feeble cautionary note did nothing to dampen the ill-founded enthusiasm for the use and promotion of both drugs.

With the new revision, ICMR – and India – are now in line with accepted good practice vis-à-vis managing COVID-19, at least on the count of these two drugs. The guidelines of the US National Institutes of Health, the UK National Institute of Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), and the WHO all negatively recommend ivermectin and HCQ.

“The fascination with and support for ivermectin as a prophylactic agent against COVID-19 is hard to explain.”

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The fact that you are calling a drug that was initially approved for use in humans as “horse dewormer” … shows that you are biased and unable to objectively parse this information.

IVM has been used as viral replication inhibitor in Africa to combat dengue viral infections. Because it is used as profilactics before Covid pandemic there seems to be corellation with low cases of Covid in Africa.

Both India and Mexico followed the suit with what some attribute to ivm successful application that reduced deaths and severe cases. Massive amount of “on the ground” clinicians who has done both randomized and observational studies has been available.

An army of clinicians around the world vouch for it.

The data forced FDA to allow off-label use by clinicians in the US.

But… yeah… “Horse dewormer”.

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I don’t even like the Kool-Aid, but your welcome to keep drinking it as long as you like.

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No one is forcing anything on you. That’s the beauty of living in a free nation. At least it used to be.

I respect your opinion of thinking it’s not viable. And it’s totally fine with me.

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If you read my earlier reply, I don’t care if you don’t get vaccinated. I simply want you to follow the old biblical “Levitical” policy and isolate yourself from me and my family, and I would hope you will stay away from anyone else you might infect. Otherwise, it’s your own business. There is no vaccine mandate. No one has said you have to be vaccinated, but if your exposing others to the potential that you might have the virus, your then violating my or my family or anyone you come in contact with’s rights. That you don’t have a right to do. Respect my right to not be exposed to you, that’s all I am saying. If you want to play roulette with your own life…so be it.

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And if you read my previous reply…

Conflating unvaccinated with infected in order to marginalize them the way you do… is dishonest and immoral.

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I guess I will remain a dishonest and immoral person…Thank you for pointing out my flaws.

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I didn’t call you dishonest and immoral. I called conflating unvaccinated with infected as dishonest and immoral.

Do you know why?

Because you were in that category during the whole 2020. So, either you’ve managed to be responsibile without vaccine. Or you were running around and infecting everyone in your path.

Were you?

No, I was staying at home and when I did go to get groceries, I had them delivered to the trunk of my car. I was doing my best, not only to protect myself but also my family. I still put on a mask when I go into a public space and I still avoid people who don’t put on a mask, like the plague…ironic how that saying is so germane in this context. I only wish everyone else did the same, we would be pretty much over this if they had.

Just wondering, are you against masks as well…in other words are you like the governor of Florida?

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You really need to change the way you think and stop politicizing these issues.

I’m vaccinated. Surprise! I’m wearing a mask, especially around elderly. Surprise!

BUT. There are people who are unvaxxed for a range of reasons. Some, due to terrible experience with pharma and med system that generated plenty of distrust. Some are victims of politicization that unfortunately aligns with “protest” of refusing these things. And some have legitimate medical conditions, like my son, who are more at risk vaxxing … due to certainty of vaxxing, than they are at risk of catching covid, especially if they already had it.

So, conflating all of these people as one and the same caricature that you attack as irresponsible is not it.

Moat of them are quite considerate and responsible, much like you were during the pandemic, and would prefer that over whatever risk they perceive otherwise.

You demonizing everyone like “they are all the same” is both divisive and pushes people to the margins they don’t belong to.

I think approach of consideration would be a much more rational approach. Pushing for policies that fires these people resolves nothing. It just takes their livelihoods under the flag of “caring for everyone”… without considering any range of reasons as to why. That’s generally what oppressive regimes look like.

Likewise policymakers decided that they have license to lie and approach facts selectively snd preferentially, so long as their benevolent objectives are achieved. And that’s likewise not how science works, and it hurts us all in the long term.

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Really, This is almost laughable since the people politicizing the treatment of this virus are the ones who have made a public health situation into a political one. All most of us want to do is simply get people to be responsible, yet some governors and many religious groups including many in the SDA church have made this political. This should never have been political. It should have been a medically handled problem by medical professionals, not politicians, but if your accusing me of being political, so be it. I am sick of the politicians who have been fighting vaccination, mask wearing, social distancing, saying that the government is strong arming people against their own will. Believe me, I absolutely hate the politics of this. I am not a conservative right-wing person and I don’t support or live in any of the states that are making this into a political issue.

You mention distrust…that is exactly the problem. A great deal of the population don’t trust anything anymore…and who do you think has been their champion who stands up campaigning even though he isn’t currently running for anything. The information being spread by all of these alternate news websites have caused people to totally distrust any authority, any medical establishment, and agency that we normally would depend on to guide us through things such as this.

I am livid about the previous administration for firing a committee that was established in the Obama administration to deal with pandemics. There was a group of experts who were put in place to establish protocols to deal with exactly what we are now in the middle of, a pandemic. But the Trump administration disbanded the committee and we were totally unprepared for dealing with this mess…so talk about politics…don’t you dare say I am making this political I am sick of what politics has done to make people distrustful of our medical institutions. The only thing about what you said that I agree with is that politics has created this mess. But it isn’t my politics…it’s the politicians who are anti vaccine, anti mask, making children go to school without masks …and the list goes on. Just like I said, Florida and Texas are exactly what I feel are at the root of this disgusting problem we face.

I will say it again. If you don’t get vaccinated, that’s your business, but then be responsible and keep your distance, ware a mask in public and avoid being in proximity to others.

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An open mind tends to think and weigh the balance of information. I like doing that before I form a definite opinion. My opinions do change on occasion based on what facts surface over time. Personally, I think a whole lot of truths have not been completely exposed yet over the virus and methods to combat it. In fact, just yesterday it was reported that simple aspirin can prevent covid patients from ever needing breathing intervention from a machine by 45%. Last year we were told “do not take aspirin if you have covid”. Israel made the discovery.

  • I don’t presume anything I pray and ask God to protect me and I believe that He will and He has.
  • Just because seat belts exist doesn’t mean they can save you. Plenty die with their seatbelts on.
  • Not sure what you mean about conspiracy by the government I didn’t mention anything about that in my reply
  • I won’t get the virus because God IS protecting me like I said I’ve asked for that and I believe He will it’s call faith.God protects those who love Him and Love others you should try loving instead of being so nasty.
  • No presumption like I said I’ve asked and I have no doubt God has protected me and my family. Let me demonstrate. My mother in law and father in law both got covid. My mother in law later died from Pneumonia and my father in law with covid came to live with us. We prayed about it and happily accepted him into our home so we could take care of him. No one in the house got covid (because we prayed and believed). On the other hand I have a dear friend who’s not a believer went and got the shot and later caught covid I’ve spent time with him and again never caught covid.

Do you really believe and Love God? I do and I trust him. I also trust the data less than 1% are dying from this so called covid virus why would I risk taking a drug with no long term data? To me it’s utter foolishness and that is my free choice given by God to feel that way. You on the other hand want to take a virus where human fetal tissue was used in its development are free to do so. To me that is being complicit to murder to save my own skin and unthinkable act. The shaking perhaps has started?

I live my life based on Biblical principles and never get sick because my body is healthy the way God intended it and I thank God daily for that. Why then if I eat a biblical diet, no added sugars, processed foods, meat and other delicacies work out 5 days a week, I do without the things that others live on like sweets and alcohol.(read councils on diet and foods) Why then should I have to put a substance into my body where no long term data exist. The data that does exist tells me that others have been injured and thousands died according VAERS. Why do I have to subject myself to that because others eat like the world eats, they do not trust in God and go to Him for protection. Why is it people like yourself are of the opinion I must do as you wish? (I wish you to choose for yourself) To say I don’t care about other is presumption. I have a friend dying from type 2 diabetes. I said to her, Nancy stop drinking Coke and eating sugar and she said “but I like it so much”. Why do I have to change my lifestyle for people who are willfully killing them selves?

Your words speak to your hard heart and your lack of love. I am not refusing a so called vaccine in ignorance I refuse It because of the conviction of the Holy Spirit of God. I will not go against God’s health message and put pharmekia into my body. If it is God’s will I die then I die “to live is Christ and to die is gain”

Good day…

You need not explain your judgmental language to me sir. That is between you and God. I merely pointed it out.

Thank you, Phillip, for the clarification.

Read Job. Job believed in God. What happened to him? Did he contact disease?

Read the Bible for what it’s saying.

Frank

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The fetal tissue issue has been thoroughly debunked. Go to credible sources.

Frank

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I reckon by that definition, all that get sick or may die, did not love God enough! Sounds rather like a pagan idea, jus’ say’n!

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Look Frank. God has granted us free choice because of His great love for us. I get that you have no love for anyone who’s view differs from your own, that is between you and the Lord. Job said “though He slay me I will trust Him”. I too trust Him and have no plans to put a so called vaccine with no long term data into my body. The FDA has been wrong on new drugs hundreds of times approving them only to find out years later they were killing people, causing cancers etc. I’m fine with your right to choose, please respect mine and for you own good stop trying to lay other fellow Christians low who’s view differ from your own. It just makes you look like hypocrite when we are called to love.