There are many reasons. The Biblical ones are simply justifications for a tragic bias that is so ingrained and universal that we now justify it with illogical and indefensible hermaneutics.
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It’s a normal reaction but it shouldn’t cloud their judgement. We’ll see what’s going to happen as time passes on. I can only hope, if they do get ordained that they’ll be able to work together and not againist each other.
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I admire Stephen Bohr’s position on many things, but understanding has evaded him on this subject. Many equally equipped scholars have called him to task. I join them in calling our people to higher ground on this issue:
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Sadly, you cannot be led back to Egypt, if you never left. God bless.
Carolyn and Sandy P –
Adventism itself is a woman’s movement. It takes its inspiration from a woman, it is composed mainly of women [more women than men] and espouses “feminine” values – no self-assertion, no violence, no intemperance, no combative sports, limited sexuality.
Adventist Men have therefore concentrated their energies on the few channels left open to them— notably the creation and perpetuation of bureaucratic and institutional structures.
If women were permitted to participate FULLY in these areas, men might find that there was almost NO scope for them to PLAY stereotypically Masculine Roles within the Adventist context."
— “Seeking a Sanctuary”, Bull and Lockhart, pg. 271.
THIS is the ONLY REASON the men of the SDA church FIGHT the Holy Spirit in acknowledging the CALL of the Holy Spirit to Women.
EGO! EGO! EGO! Fear of having to change behaviors in their bureaucratic positions. And become “more feminine”.
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It also seems awfully limiting to God and how He can use others. Reminds me of when Peter refused to eat the unclean foods in the dream. Just repeat back the rules and rinse and repeat.
What’s wrong with being righteous and holy? Is this the work of satan convincing us that we cannot be holy and righteous? Stiff neck? So because people show reverence in Gods church then it’s stiff neck? Are we to follow the wordly church’s standards? We must get down get loose and make everyone around us feel good?
It is not Stephen Bohr who wants it; it is the God of order and perfection. He got it right. God is still in control.
God is in control. And God chose a woman to guide and teach the Adventist church. That’s a problem for people who refuse to let God be in control.
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^^^^^^ Actually, God chose men 1st and when they refused, God chose a woman. And the men confirmed that she was legit so to speak, by saying he had had the same message.
Stephen Bohr is a Male Headship Broker. He is the biblical tradition of preserving traditions became an over-medicated tradition. He swayed more by fear than by reverence.
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God could simply have chosen another man, but did not. So God wasn’t settling for second best in choosing a woman. God being all-knowing was aware of who would accept the gift or reject it. Perhaps God was demonstrating that maleness doesn’t include spiritual superiority after all.
And, btw, see Delbert Baker’s book, “The Forgotten Prophet” about William Foy. His careful research has led to a revision of the common misunderstanding that Foy rejected God’s prophetic call.
An overview here: http://www.blacksdahistory.org/the-career-of-the-unknown-prophet.html
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Spectrum deleted my recent post on this subject.
In it, I posted what amounts to a synopsis of headship doctrine as it exists in many evangelical churches (and as I experienced it) here.
Headship is not a tempest in an Adventist teapot. It is a culture-wide phenomenon which Adventism bought into at its inception in the 1980s, as documented by the late Gerry Chudleigh, and Spectrum’s coverage of Chudleigh’s free ebook:
Therefore, Stephen Bohr, Jay Gallimore, Doug Batchelor, Danny Shelton, et.al., are influenced by the outer Christian culture’s adoption of headship doctrine as they discuss headship on YouTube here.
Many Ellen White statements go hand-in-glove with headship doctrine. This is simply undeniable.
But it’s also undeniable that this doctrine never took root in Adventism until it was introduced by Samuele Bacchiocchi, who adopted it from Neo-Calvinists in the 1980’s. Does anyone dispute that?
However, because it seems to harmonize with Ellen White, it isnt ever going away. (Perhaps Spectrum didn’t want me to mention moral paralysis?)
Women’s ordination is a wedge issue for a thoroughgoing male headship, which, if you read the linked synopsis above, is anti-democratic. I mentioned anti democratic trends in the larger culture here.
In my post Spectrum deleted, I urged readers to check the cultural context of male headship doctrine–there is a lot of information available.
This post is on the topic of “Why Stephen Bohr Wants Male Headship,” according to one woman’s opinion. It contains no long quotes.
I am sad that Adventism is trapped in this struggle.
I am sad that, since shortly after the women’s ordination vote in San Antonio in 2015, Spectrum no longer supports public conversations.
Spectrum, please give me a minute to copy this, so my grandchildren can see I tried, when they’re old enough to understand. Thanks.
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You evidently are confusing the majority of women in the church as the same as those who sit on boards and make decisions both above the local church but at the union, divisional and national levels.
Yes, women are the larger number in volunteering; but men are the larger number in making decisions. Remember: The first and only conference president has been unrecognized and snubbed the the G.C. administration and she has not been represented by her official position by church leaders.
Women have always kept the church alive while men are too often largely absent. Compare the number of men and women in the pews.
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Your reference regards the topic of knowing men by their fruits, whether they’re Christians, not whether they should be pastors. The Word has already given us the qualifications of pastors. I see nothing at all wrong with what Bohr said, and I’m a woman. Either we believe and obey God’s Word, or we don’t.
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well, that’s what the jews who opposed paul and the gospel were saying when they quoted the following:
“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised…and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.” Gen 17:10-13.
in paul’s day, the issue was the fact that salvation was open to all, not just the jews…it was a time of transition…seminal texts were being shown to be culturally limited, but not all were on board…
today, we are also in a time of transition…women have the same legal rights as men, and are being shown to have the same leadership gifts as men…again, seminal texts are being shown to be culturally limited, and not all are on board…
you cannot make the case that egw didn’t function as a pastor, in addition to all her other roles…and you cannot say that she wasn’t ordained by god himself, and paid as one of the ordained ministers in the church…in egw’s own words:
“All who desire an opportunity for true ministry, and who will give themselves unreservedly to God, will find in the canvassing work opportunities to speak upon many things pertaining to the future, immortal life. The experience thus gained will be of the greatest value to those who are fitting themselves for the ministry. It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God.” 6T:322.
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im Adventist
30 years since I baptized, grew up adventist
male, Hispanic
bio grad.
I don’t profess to be theology expert or genius however,
I don’t find any issue with women ordination. based largely on one view
is a prophet more influential than a pastor is ask myself; I answer yes.
does a prophet have a direct message from God; I answer yes.
does a prophet have a larger work than a pastor; I answer yes
is it mandatory for prophets get “ordained”; I answer no.
has God ever chosen a female prophet; I answer yes
I conclude, if God chose in the past an “unordained”, young, female, with little formal education as a Prophet; then
whats the problem with having female Pastors?
God chose a Male for his important work for the Adventist movement, and he chicken out.
Yet a woman, accepted the challenge.
I further argue, if its true that God only wants male headship, then why didn’t He choose another male, instead of EGW?
IF ITS AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH THAT MALE HEADSHIP IS THE ONLY LEADERSHIP
ACCEPTED BY GOD, THEN WHY WOULD HE CHOOSE EGW AS OUR PROPHET.
to me the Bohr is if full of nonsense, and to me its obvious he has an agenda and not a divine inspired message
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I must admit not to listening to Stephen Bohr, to know what he says, because I watched him grinning and applauding when the negative vote at the 2015 GC session was announced. He was sitting by another -never-married to a woman but “in love” with someone - “woman-hater,” whom I have heard speak in our church and who was exhibiting the same behavior. That speaks volumes to me and nothing else he would say would I hear.
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