Why Stephen Bohr Wants Male Headship in the Adventist Church

Spectrum Website
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Randy,
@rlg All denominational structures are works of humankind. Those who have organized denominations are dedicated followers of a belief system and are very likely students of scripture and as such we see only a few distinct models of organization and governance within Christendom.

I find it interesting that the SDA church reflects a structure very similar to the Roman Catholic church, although the governance model is very different.

Some seem to want a model of governance more like Rome’s, while other want a model that is very decentralized (congregational is the extreme) and most are some where on the continuum in between.

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When people can only quote EGW rather than admitting they lack the knowledge or desire to give their own reply, it’s relying on others to make judgments for them–LaZIness.

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[quote=“GeorgeTichy, post:322, topic:6168”]
Regarding EGW’s statement, you don’t have to repost it all over again. It does not change my question at all.
[/quote]Wasn’t trying to change your question . You and @ageis7 seem to keep ignoring the instruction of EGW and the teachings God in the Bible 1 Timothy 3: 1-7 and in many other books and verses of the Bible. @Elaine why should I give my opinion when I have a thus saith the Lord . When the Bible or the teachings of EGW are used to prove you wrong you ignore it .
Jesus follows the guidance of the Father ,Where do you believe the teachings of 1 Timothy 3: 1-7 came from? The teachings of Timothy came from= ________ .
Here’s a little history for ya. When EGW said bicycles ; " There seemed to be a bicycle craze. Money was spent to gratify an enthusiasm in this direction that might better, far better, have been invested in building houses of worship where they are greatly needed." At that time around 1900 a bicycle cost around $600.00 only the elite could afford to by them . But like all costly toys people of little means would spend money for a bicycle so they could party with the elite. She saw first hand her brothers and sisters in Battle Creek gratifying their own desires. With parties for frivolous, worldly pleasure, gatherings for eating, drinking, and singing, are inspired by a spirit that is from beneath. They are an oblation to Satan. And at that time that was the culture associated with the bicycle. She saw the bicycle as the means to a culture that was sinful . But here at spectrum I have read the bicycle story used to try and discredit EGW.
@ageis7 Do you believe EGW is a Prophet of the SDA church and we should follow her counsel for the structure of the church?
REFFERENSE BELOW …Or you can read post 316.

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[quote=“ageis7, post:324, topic:6168, full:true”]
When people can only quote EGW rather than admitting they lack the knowledge or desire to give their own reply, it’s relying on others to make judgments for them–LaZIness.
[/quote]I think it was post 308

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I wish you could recognize how inappropriate … and down right annoying… it is for someone who keeps acknowledging their lack of “education”… as well as that you are “new here”… to jump flatfooted into a thread and make the demands … and the judgements… that you have been doing on others here.

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That is a great saying, I’ll have to remember that.

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Jo,
Two things.

  1. Is it only women who are conditioned to accept oppression that are opposed to WO? Could there possibly be some that are not oppressed that oppose? You must have a really interesting set of glasses.
  2. And, oh, I see your analogy, alright, but I just don’t agree with it. If your view holds, that is, that only those on the receiving end can see it, thus negating the opinion of any who might disagree with you for they have not experienced what you have, all discussions ceases, for no one can understand anyone else.
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  1. Yes. And No. Because no woman who understands her true freedom and value in Christ would deny that to another woman.
  2. You missed the word ‘may’.
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@bille who do you think this was aimed at .

[quote=“ageis7, post:324, topic:6168, full:true”]
When people can only quote EGW rather than admitting they lack the knowledge or desire to give their own reply, it’s relying on others to make judgments for them–LaZIness.
[/quote] Did God take the day off and put you in charge of judgment .

[quote=“Bille, post:327, topic:6168”]
and make the demands … and the judgements… that you have been doing on others here.
[/quote]Demands and Judgment’s? You mean asking questions and when there ignored call them on it .
@Billy you jumped in so why don’t you answer them?

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I am wondering how this matter was not put to rest in 1990. However, I believe I have the answer. The Seventh Day Adventist Movement has worked well for many decades. And now, as many other Churches have done or are trying to do, change the fundamental rules and guidelines. In the last discussion I heard talk about making sure if it turns out to be a no vote again, this needs to be put to rest. However, in the discussion points were raised about positions with compensation for those that will not be recognized as qualifying for a paycheck if they cannot be Ordained.

My view on this whole matter is, this matter should have been ended when it raised up its evil head the first time. When you that now disagree with the fundamentals and bylaws when you joined saying you accepted them and now do not, you should follow your new heart and create a Church with fundamentals and bylaws that fit your requirements and stop trying to change what is not broken.

Do you now see the error of the SDA Way? What part of God’s Order would you like to change besides this matter? My own opinion and plan recommendation, which I think the World Church will not accept as an action plan, remove and participant moving ahead with ordination prior to another final decision on this subject by the GC and additionally demote or remove anyone involved with contradicting the two prior decisions by the members and representatives. Also, any participation of Local Conference members or Union representatives should also be met with assertive measures to prevent this type of rebellious action from taking place again.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a Bible Based Movement, Our God has set a precedent of His order of how we are to conduct ourselves, including following rules and direction from our chosen governance. What has happened here ans is still going on is not a small thing, it is a rebellious spirited action that has already caused damage to the elect body of members the Lord selected and raised up as His Remnant Church. The right thing for those that instigated this repeated demand for change and outright challenge of authority is to gracefully repent and step down. But if your heart is still full of rebellious thoughts then I would ask that you remove yourself from the Seventh Day Adventist Church and perhaps create something that works withing your guidelines. Additionally, I see a lot of disrespect being loosely spewed out on this site towards men that remain humble yet have achieved marvelous results for our members and the World in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ and in the Name of the Seventh Day Adventist Movement. You Gentlemen and Ladies should be absolutely ashamed of the slander and sarcasm I have read here pertaining to Church Leaders. You will find our leaders a lot more loving and forgiving than myself when it comes to disrespect of very qualified Church Leaders doing what they feel is the right thing to do! If you have any problem with my comment, take it up with the Lord first, then lets discuss opinions. Brother Tim Horton

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  1. Read the Fundamental Beliefs & their preamble. They are written w/ the anticipation that they will change as we grow in understanding Present Truth.

  2. However, there is no Fundamental Belief nor any church policy that prohibits women from being ordained.
    Fundamental Belief #14, in its entirety:
    The church is one body with many members, called from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. In Christ we are a new creation; distinctions of race, culture, learning, and nationality, and differences between high and low, rich and poor, male and female, must not be divisive among us. We are all equal in Christ, who by one Spirit has bonded us into one fellowship with Him and with one another; we are to serve and be served without partiality or reservation. Through the revelation of Jesus Christ in the Scriptures we share the same faith and hope, and reach out in one witness to all. This unity has its source in the oneness of the triune God, who has adopted us as His children."

There’s been no “rebellion”:
"GC policy on ordination: “decisions regarding the ordination of ministers is entrusted to the union conference…” GC Working Policy B 05

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Brother Tim Horton said： You will find our leaders a lot more loving and forgiving than myself when it comes to disrespect of very qualified Church Leaders doing what they feel is the right thing to do!

It’s a shame that you feel this way! I hope you linger here at Spectrum. Post and enjoy the conversations. You may even enjoy it!

Missing Pr. Doug over there at SAC central?

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Thank you Rohan for your concern. In answer to your question about Pastor Doug, yes we all miss him. But Pastor Doug is actually right around the Corner at Granite Bay. Well, that is when he is not out helping save God’s people. I am glad to say that Pastor Chris and Pastor Mike have been great! We are muddling our way through Media and Broadcasting but amazingly, that is also going great.

I am very excited to see the wonderful things our Church, meaning the whole of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, does and to get to know so many wonderful people. To be honest, my problem is not the issue of requesting Ordination of a Woman, that the members can decide on. My issue is the Ordination before a decision, which I pray is final, what ever way it goes in 2015. But to have moved forward without the approval of the GC, especially since this has gone before them already and the overwhelming vote was no seems to me a rebellious action. I have already been challenged on the word rebellious, but until the word rebellious is changed, as many other words have been such as marriage to be usable in the worlds dialog, I know the definition.

I am a 63 year old die hard Bible lover. Clearly, I have much to learn which I admit freely. However, I have read many comments that on the surface lean more towards people bashing versus issue opinion. That to me is really evil spirited childish name calling. Leaders like Pastor Bohr and Pastor Doug and I could list many, have taken a stand on what they believe the Bible says and also what it doesn’t say. I have found our Creator to be a common sense Creator. My opinion is that if something is absolutely self evident, it needs no explanation.

I have prayed over this issue of Ordination and disobedient actions and have resolved that I need to hold my opinions until the 2015 conference is completed. Should the members decide to go with female ordination I will not remove myself from our Church. In fact I may start a movement to overturn a yes vote, staying within the guidelines of our governance. However, that may I speak of is based on long term activities of what might happen in the future. If other issues arise that are clearly non-Biblical or worse further dividing our Church, I know what I have to do.

I was directed to the SDA Church, I have no doubt, by the Holy Spirit. I had been searching for truth for many decades. I also was searching for stability and order based on God’s Word. I do not see the Seventh Day Adventist Church and Movement as being broken, therefore needing no change. I have been so blessed by loving people that know the Bible and teach what and how it instructs to be taught by what I believe to be Divinely motivated followers of our Lord and Savior. I cannot tell others to demonstrate respect, but I can ask, which I do.

Rohan, Thank you for your kind words and invitation. May the Lord Bless you and your loved ones, Brother Tim

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@hrt604 I too have been much distressed by those who sling crude and negative epithets, sarcasm, and ridicule around. I have heard it on both sides. I have been called a Jesuit, influenced by Satan, a rebel, a 2-yr-old throwing a tantrum, power-hungry (tho I never felt called to be a pastor myself), a destroyer of the church, self-centered, and on and on. I think the biggest lesson we need to learn on this issue is how to love and support each other even when we don’t agree.

BTW I used to be fervently against WO. Then I started studying for myself (without any material for or against- just me and my Bible) Now I intensely support men and women in joint leadership as they show evidence of God’s call.

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You have spoken as someone willing to study and learn. The "slings and arrows"will not change God’s leadership. If those are so unhappy and believe the church is being led by Satan, why would they want to stay in a church if they believe it is Satan, not God who is leading?

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I, too am blessed by Pr.Doug’s ministry here in Japan!Most of his sermons are edifying as well as being interesting with references to his cave days and former excesses! Even though I don’t always agree with what he says, I always look forward to watching his sermons on the crowded subway.

Thanks for detailing your views on the WO issue.While I disagree, I respect your passion. I’m sure that there will be many in Heaven that we disagreed with here on earth.

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Rohan, you are kind and thank you. There are some really Great Media Pastors and it is amazing the depth of explanation that is shared. Take care and thank you again. Brother Tim

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Well, then they both are at odds with God.

Trust God.

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I think what Bohr meant was that if you become succeful at something it does not make the doing of that thing right. Eg you make be a successful thief.

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Yes and guess what…she was a regular person with no title, not commissioned or ordained and yet she able to do as we should all be doing. That’s an excellent point. Thanks for pointing that out. :+1:

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