Why the Church Has To Stop Saying Sexual Sin Is the Most Important Thing


(Bryan Ness) #355

In a monogamous, marital setting, it is no different than heterosexuality.


(Tongkam) #356

Sexual sin (adultery) is ten times more common inside the church than outside of it. For that reason, if for no other, I think it is appropriate for the church to address it. In fact, I think the church does not address it enough. Church members may know that smoking, drinking, or other sins as would be quickly reproved and condemned in the church, cannot be hidden–presenting less of a temptation. But adulterers suppose they can hide their sins. Perhaps for this reason, adultery is more prevalent in the church. We do well to address it. If we’re addressing it well enough. Which is still a big question in my mind.


(Simone) #357

The bishop is not the intermediary between you and God, but what he and the elders stand for in the church? Do they have a task, a responsability? Ca everyone do as they please in the church? can people tha is not blameless, with a strong moral standin occupy responsability positions in the church?
If people feel free to live theyr life as they please they may get to responsible positions but they are slaves of satan and not of Christ… what will be the outcaming of that situation for the church?


(le vieux) #358

I wouldn’t have allowed her to receive Bible studies one-on-one with Venden, either, and I was blessed by many of his sermons. One asks for trouble when a man and a woman are alone doing Bible studies. There should be more people involved, whether the teacher is squeaky clean or not.


(Sandy Puentes ) #359

I do, Andrew, hence why I spoke out in the 1st place. :wink:


(Elmer Cupino) #360

You’re a wise man, Pici. Take well care of your daughter. You are her legacy.

So Pipim was asking “for trouble” all along, knowing consciously that what he was doing was less than adequate. What term is normally used to describe these individuals?


#361

It is sickening. Makes me angry. Disgusted. It’s a nightmare for anyone with an innocent daughter. Or any who love young women in our church where he prowls.

Here is why he is apparently still welcomed in Adventism by the anti ordination folks:

Dr Pipim’s book against women is here:

Here he is at the Remnant Publications booth where he hung out during G.C. in San Antonio:


(Simone) #362

This article is just a big strow man argument based on foulty presuposition. Sin is sin. people like me that arrived to church from the outside world know clearly the choice is making. We came to God and in his mistical body (the church) as we are …sinners, does no matter which sin… sinners ageinst others humans (killing, violence…) sinners ageinst God (fornication which includes omosexuality, idolatry…). We do came here because we want to be changed by God not because we want to find a nice place with nice people that in your sins let you feel confotable and so you have a nice people and a nice spirituality and we all feel ok.
I don’t feel ok as i read the bible and i look my way of doing and thinking…so i go to Jesus and i ask Him to give me the strencht to overcame sin, and i go to church to be encouraged by people that before me won battles with the Lord and entourage me to keep fighting. We are not a movement where people should be confortable in living in sin…Jesus is coming soon!


(Kim Green) #363

One would wonder why you would be defending them all since they clearly haven’t been working…but go on ahead and then you can move yourself and business to Second and Third Worlds where I am sure that you will be in the company of those who will agree with you.


(Kim Green) #364

I suspect that Kevin has never been employed as a pastor by the Adventist Church and he has never stated a place where he “pastors”. You could ask him…don’t expect a reply.


(Kim Green) #367

Boy, you got all of this correct!


(Kim Green) #368

Having worked in “management”…many are idiots even at good jobs (even if you have had management experience) :smile:


(Kim Green) #369

Allen…really? There was slavery, there were no social “nets” for those who lived in poverty, etc. Hard to make this assertion.

Allen, you have made this claim, time and time again…with nothing more than just your opinion to back it up. Is it more “destructive” than heterosexuality whose members greatly outnumber the LGBT population? What is this “destruction” that you allude to??

Naw…we are all just a bunch of naive folks :wink:


(Kim Green) #370

Then we all should be uncomfortable…as we have all fallen short. The “movement” isn’t perfect either…


(Frankmer7) #372

Kevin…

Your pedigree not withstanding, it seems that you miss the point. What is left unspoken, seems to speak more powerfully than what you or I have ever heard from a pulpit or SS class. Sex and sexual sin are largely taboo subjects in most Protestant churches, and the Adventist church is no exception.

When can people be forthright about their struggles on a personal level, without the fear of being stigmatized, looked down upon, or rejected? Where is the mechanisms and environment in place to deal with what causes personal brokenness in this area, apart from projecting such sin onto those “out there,” who live an "immoral lifestyle? " IOW, when it is spoken of, it becomes a detached, clinical issue that is kept at a safe distance, that is the struggle of others. But God forbid that it should be ours!

When have you been able to get with others on an equal footing, not the one up one down position of the pastor/parishioner relationship, and openly talk about your own brokenness without fear in the church? We’re talking about an implicit culture here…not just the official line spoken from the pulpit.

Thanks…

Frank


(Bryan Ness) #373

Really? I’d be interested in some confirmation of this.

Although I am in agreement that it may be no less prevalent inside than outside the church, I really doubt it is as bad as this. We do err in not being more open and and honest about the real issues involved in adultery. More willingness to seek psychological counseling could alleviate a lot of the troubles.


#374

ARE YOU KIDDING?

  1. Pipim RAPED women. This is a crime punishable by decades in prison. Life in prison.

  2. Women using their gifts from the Holy Spirit is somehow equal to raping?

What LOGIC are you using? From what planet are you coming? Your daughter is RAPED by this man and you say, “Oh, it’s not so bad. It’s just like her wanting to be an ordained pastor.”

  1. Where is the Adventist church policy on RAPE and SEXUAL PREDATORS of young children and youth?

a. They should immediately be suspended from church, credentials removed, membership removed, access and exposure removed immediately to any of the organization’s children.

b. IMMEDIATE reporting to civil authorities whatever country the actions occur in.

c. An IMMEDIATE church injunction prohibiting him from speaking at a church event or property anywhere in the world.

d. IMMEDIATE cancellation of all future speaking engagements at any organizational event.

e. Termination of anyone who violates the official church’s aforesaid rules and who in any way accommodates in any way access to a nearby University or any other organization.

f. Immediate termination or disfellowshipping of anyone who does not immediately report crimes such as rape or sexual predation.

g. Immediate suspension of access to any audio, video, or print materials published by such a person.

h. Immediate disassociation of Pipim in particular with official church-sponsored campus ministries.

i. Banning of any access of a perpetrator at any official church-sponsored event such as the General Conference in session, its exhibitors, or its para-Adventist independent ministries.

Alan. I can’t believe the lapse in LOGIC equating a RAPIST and admitted sexual aggressor (who finally admitted committing adultery on the eve of his rebaptism when confronted by the victim) to a pastor of the Gospel who is female and ordained because of the public recognition of her integrity, morality and gifts from the Holy Spirit.

As I’ve shown, there are many things a church organization can do. Indeed, secular organizations have such policies in place. Why would a religious organization lag in dealing with this egregious, lawless act?

Those organizations that do not act are complicit in the abuse.

@elmer_cupino @GeorgeTichy


(Tongkam) #375

Suppose we look at a quick Biblical example to illustrate:

Offender/offense: King Saul – offers sacrifice without being qualified to perform duties of ordained priest, to appease the people.
Punishment: Rejected as king by God, meaning his progeny will not inherit the throne.

Offender/offense: King David – Rapes Bathsheba and has her husband murdered so that he can steal her to be his wife.
Punishment: Her first child dies. He retains the throne for his children forever.

It would appear that ordination IS a big deal to God. The purity of the sacred office is important to Him.


(Tongkam) #376

I have it on good authority, actually. While some might argue that this is “dated,” I would say that if anything, churches today have amply preserved the trend, and I do not stop at Adventists in that assessment, but would include all who call themselves “Christian.”

But if the transgressors of the seventh commandment were to be found only among those who do not profess to be Christ's followers, the evil would not be a tenth part as great as it now is; but the crime of adultery is largely committed by professed Christians. Both clergymen and laymen, whose names stand fair upon the church record, are alike guilty. {TSB 99.1} (Ellen White)

#377

Raping and murdering has what to do with God calling a woman to be a pastor???

@elmer_cupino @GeorgeTichy