Why the Church Has To Stop Saying Sexual Sin Is the Most Important Thing

(Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13) #464

If true, this would make the example left to us by Ellen White extremely problematic. She not only ministered at the sacred desk, she claimed she had authority to do so over & against the elders. She also found no Biblical prohibition to being repeatedly recognized in the “office of Ordained Minister” per credentialing, Yearbook listings, & salary.

“Brethren, you leave that matter with the Lord and Sister White, for neither the Lord nor Sister White will need to be dictated to by the brethren as to what subject she will bring before them. I am at home in Battle Creek … and we ask not permission to take the desk in the tabernacle. I take it as my rightful position accorded me of God."
(Ellen G. White Manuscript 30, June 1889, “Experience Following Minneapolis Conference”; in 1888 Materials, pp. 355-356)

(Tongkam) #465

Ellen White was not an elder. Apples and oranges.

(Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13) #466

If that’s the answer you can come up w/, you haven’t truly understood what I wrote.

(Tongkam) #468

I don’t think you’ve understood the distinction between prophet and elder. Most WO promoters conflate the two. Necessarily. It’s the best “proof” you have that women should be ordained to eldership positions. The problem is that it’s based in a fallacious reasoning that does not hold oil.

(Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13) #470

When has Adventist ordination to the “office of Ordained Minister” excluded eldership?

(Tongkam) #471

When has someone been ordained in our church without an ordination ceremony?

(Kim Green) #472

If we could only just squeeze everyone into little boxes with little labels…what a wonderful (neat and tidy) world it would be :wink:

(Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13) #473

So you’re arguing that God’s ordination is meaningless? It was on the basis of the ordination claimed by EGW that the church recognized Ellen White w/ the credentials, Yearbook listings, & salary of an Ordained Minister.

“Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.”

(Tongkam) #474

That’s a straw man.

I say God has ordained me. Why hasn’t the church issued said credentials to me?

(George Tichy) #478

The two comments you referred to from @Simone are not worth spending any energy trying to “straighten” them out. They reveal a complete lack of basic knowledge about the issue (homosexual nature), so there is no merit on explaining it.
Brother Simone needs to get acquainted with current knowledge available on the issue - or, as an option, restraining himself from commenting on issues he has not enough knowledge about.

(Kim Green) #480

But you were talking about “ordination”…so are you properly trained (seminary i.e. Adventism) for ministry?

I have some idea…I can read your comments but perhaps others have told you differently? :wink:

(Kim Green) #482

I had already come to that conclusion. There is just so much “education” that can be handled via forums and then there is that comprehension part…

(Tim Teichman) #484

I didn’t write that.

Maybe. But we don’t. So picking out the one property in a passage that might be used to restrict women, and ignoring or downplaying the rest isn’t an appropriate use of scripture.

(Tongkam) #485

Are you implying that two wrongs should make a right? If it’s wrong to ordain women, it’s wrong whether or not people disregard other points in the same passage, isn’t it? Obviously, adding a further wrong to what may already be committed will not right anything.

(Tim Teichman) #486

No, not implying anything. Please use a plain reading of my words to understand what I mean.

(Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13) #487

Because God hasn’t led the church to agree w/ you, but it was led to agree w/ Ellen White.

(Frankmer7) #488

Your pigeon holing of women’s roles in the church doesn’t go far enough, according to the NT. Paul explicitly said that he did not allow a woman to either have authority over men in church, or to even speak in church. If we are to apply this literally, without regard for the context of the letters in which he said this, and the local and cultural situations from which they sprang, then this blows what EGW did, and what the denomination allowed her to do, when she was alive, out of the water. Her calling doesn’t trump what Paul is literally saying…except that you say it does. But, Paul himself never made any qualifications for female prophets.

You want to have your cake and eat it, too. It doesn’t work that way. That’s what your acontextual literalism does. It’s all or nothing.


(Gerhard Dr Svrcek Seiler) #489

Sorry, of course no sermons, but a secretly cultivated attitude. All about sex ist a case of denial and disavoval. But everybody is watching and feeding his phantasies: Does she shortly after wedding wear wider skirts ? - Ha, did not I ever say : Watch on her !

Nonono, read Job 31 : ! and 9. = with what theme did he begin to describe his righteusness ?

Repeatedly something I read in our periodicals about bikinis, ckevage, modesty , purity, purity, purity-

(Boys,keep your mind pure,nevernevenever think of sex when meeting a girl that attracts you - bets order your wife to be at Amazon or at last at the Unions Youth department !

    • and I can name you slander and defamation (in a juridical sense), defalcation ( sum in the sixties : One million ATS), bankruptsy, , continuous fraud in businesss, fraud -

No church, no church board even discussed these crimes. But I remeber quite a nuber of girls who had , facing the whole church, to apologitze from the rostrum, blaming themselves - - One was called for a hearing by the church board, never before being in a SDA chuch. One was disfellowshipped because she confessed to have done a great nonsense, but the man beng s absolutely nobody to get married to.

By the way: we had two or three nymphomaniacs in our church - also approachig male members of the church - but not one word was spoken about the situation aloud…

Plase create a new, biblic atmosphere in Church !!

(Gerhard Dr Svrcek Seiler) #490

With some experience in counseling and communication training : Sorry we Adventists do not dance : If you cannot dance the classic ballroom dances with your finace to be - quit it ! If you cannot play together - quit it. Draw a picture togeher on one sheet - if you cannot harmonize your lines - quit it.

The bed test ist absolutely not necessary. You can sit on the couch and listen to music as “one” - just leaning together - and you enjoy it - ok.

(Gerhard Dr Svrcek Seiler) #491

Now I have a question : Th etopic is Why the Church Has to Stop Saying Sin is the Most immportnt Thig" Waht has this to do with SKP or WO ?