Why the Church Has To Stop Saying Sexual Sin Is the Most Important Thing


(Tongkam) #515

I don’t remember saying that the Bible explicitly stated this. Choose ye this day whom ye will hear, but as for me and my house, we will heed God’s prophets.

The Comforter is called "the Spirit of truth." His work is to define and maintain the truth. He first dwells in the heart as the Spirit of truth, and thus He becomes the Comforter. There is comfort and peace in the truth, but no real peace or comfort can be found in falsehood. It is through false theories and traditions that Satan gains his power over the mind. By directing men to false standards, he misshapes the character. Through the Scriptures the Holy Spirit speaks to the mind, and impresses truth upon the heart. Thus He exposes error, and expels it from the soul. It is by the Spirit of truth, working through the word of God, that Christ subdues His chosen people to Himself. {DA 671.1} (Ellen White)

(k_Lutz) #516

How twisted can we get? Serving God and heeding God’s prophets which have a PORTION of His Spirit are not the same thing. O what a wicked web we weave …

Trust God.


(Tom Loop) #517

Jesus said “If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me.” I believe we need to be far more savior focused instead of sin focused. I am by no means supporting cheap grace or nominalism. Quite the contrary. Our sins cost the life of Jesus who died for us.

Does it ever occur to the crowds of judgemental critics who say “cry aloud and spare not and show My people their sins” to look at that text in this light— Our sins are there on that cross, born by Jesus who took upon himself all of our sins. “He became sin for us.” Such winsome witness has an irresistable power to draw people to Jesus. His love is irresistable if it is held up in all it’s amazing glory.

It was the love of Jesus that drew me to him, not some finger pointing at my sexual sins. Too often folks say “love the sinner, but hate the sin.” To many on the receiving end of that worn out cliche it seems like a missile closing ion on a target. When a prostitute was drug before Jesus with the demand that she be stoned, Jesus said “let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” After all her accuser were gone, she knew Jesus was the only one there qualified to stone her. But what did he say to her? “Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.” The sinner needs to hear those words “neither do I condemn you” above all else. But to many christians it is mutted with the words “GO AND SIN NO MORE” shouted from the rooftop. I like to think by saying “go and sin no more”, he was inviting her to a better life free from her addicition to prostitution. My reply to those who put the greater emphasis on “Go and sin no more”, what did you expect him to say “you can go back to work now???”

There is a lot of finger pointing at gays, who are demonized in many christians circles as abominations. Hmm, I don’t see homosexual;ity listed among the 6 sins listed in Proverbs as the ones God hates. It even adds “Yea 7 are an abomindation.” the worst abomination is PRIDE. It’s time for us all to take a reality check, and drink a dose of humility.
@Bille @blc @carrolgrady @kevindpaulson @Inge @elmer_cupino @ageis711Oxyain @ajshep @GeorgeTichy @hopeful


(Tongkam) #518

I like to have 20/20 vision. “Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.” (2 Chronicles 20:20) There is no wickedness to be found in obeying the Word of God. The wickedness would be in refusing to do so.


(Carrol Grady`) #519

What are omosexuals? (This should be replying to Simone)


(Bryan Ness) #520

I think he meant “onosexuals.” :wink: As in Onan, who is responsible for bringing the word onanism into the English language.

I was wondering about that too, Carrol.


(Rohan Charlton) #522

I think this is what he’s referring to Carol.

Some people get altogether too excited about its ability to remove even the toughest, most resistant stains.


(Sigve Tonstad) #523

I can relate to the preoccupation with sexual sin from my experience in SDA academy and college. When push comes to shove, however, the really unforgivable sin is lack of theological orthodoxy. Conservative Adventists will forgive serial marriages and predatory sexual behavior as long as the person in question remains on the right side of the theological issues deemed to be defining.


(Andrew) #524

I am guessing they are francophone African gays, not that they exist.


(Tom Loop) #525

By the way folks, I did get to talk with Doug Batchelor at camp meeting about what he said in 2008 from the pulpit about the California State Supreme court striking down the original statute( the one in place before proposition 8) barring same sex marriage as unconstitutional on Thursday, and then a terrible lightning storm striking Northern California on Saturday morning. He implied in his sermon that God was trying to wake people up. I told him he sounded just like Pat Robertson who tried to link Hurricane Katrina to debachery in 2005. My personal opinion is that it’s a poor way to try and win people to Christ. Let’s just say I wasn’t real happy with the responses I got from Doug. But I still consider him a friend, even though I find such cynicism more repelling that winsome. @ageis711Oxyain @carrolgrady @Inge


(Tom Loop) #526

Either he accidently left the h off or it was done deliberately. Either way I’ll give 'em a pass, but an “F” in spelling. We once had a sign on the gate to our pool that read "welcome to our “ool” Notice there is no “P” in it. Let’s keep it that way. LOL @ageis711Oxyain


(Gerhard Dr Svrcek Seiler) #527

Now I have scrolled all the contributions . I miss the compassion with SDAs everyday problems

Point one : I assume that -like here - women elsewhere outnumber men. How do you deal with Paus advice : in 1. Cor 7 : 1 - 5 and then Verse 9 ? I know about solutions like if he marries a non - SDA, he is disfellowshipped; if she marries a non SDA, -just church discipline.

And we have our rules about divorce : You are free when the other partner has commited adultery . so just keep an eye, maybe a private eye on her or him - and - just wait long enough - you maybe are free.

One just did not show any interest in his wife any more. Just isolated himself. And in a church board meeting she cried out : “Am I still married, I do not know !” ?" Clear, my dear, as long as he does not have an affair- you are bound. nnd another one , with his life dedicated to church service, was marriet to a borderline personality - my, such a sweet girl ! I I only can say : Divorce as soon as possible, she will ruin you, socially and financially, the hatred is out of every control. - -He was disfellowshipped.

And maybe also discuss sexuality in a Seniot Nursing Home… Or discuss that one, a dear, gentleman, on the Unions payroll, was left by his wife. No adultery in the momet. If you have a good stand within the “Theologians” - they find a way and a cause to “anull” the marriage - as in RCC laws : There never was a marriage , they found out ! A mnisters wife applie for divorce , her husband being impotent and her dream was to be a mother. No, he said, not at all, but my wife is not a bit attractive to me,therefore I married her to have spiritual life in my marriage. , said the “leading bretheren” : you hd a wedding, you cary his name in your passport - so you are bound forever !

Just some tragedies, some sorrow, destroyed life concepts, loneliness - - - - -


(Elaine Nelson) #528

Maybe it’s “omnisexual”?


(Elaine Nelson) #529

“They also serve who only stand and wait,” is the motto given women.


(Tom Loop) #530

You can say that again. Just look at Sam Pipin, is a case in point. He wrote his book “Where we Stand”, a favorite of the Last generation theology crowd, all the while he was raping some women. His book is still held up as “truth” even though the author is not only disgraced, but his writing are full of holes.


(George Tichy) #531

OMO is one of the most used brands of cleaning supplies in Brazil.


(Gerhard Dr Svrcek Seiler) #532

It si awfully hot here now, about 100 Fahrenheit or even more. Babsi, newly convert, a dear person, playing the organ, very interesting as SS -teacher, surely will come again in her white derss,bare houlderss, deep neckline , just held up by thin laces.

Should I go to church the day after tomorrow ? Should I wear dark glasses so nobody can see at what I am gawking ?
And Suzy, also newly convert, just married, will come with her deep neckline. . Oh, what a poor man I am, wired that way, helpless , dreaming about Suzie and Babsi al the week ! - As far as I read out of the “Adventist Review”!

I tell you, my personal opinion is that one should be dressed properly for the occasion - why no light, sheer or fishnert jacket around the shoulders ? But I am an oldfashinoed man.

All Ihey are is bothetring about bikinis, tops, - - - - and I know about quite many real “sexual” sins inbetween .!


(Elaine Nelson) #533

Isn’t there a tiny bit of envy that women can dress for hot weather but men usually overdress and swelter? Here in California where I live, 100 is the average for summer, often above that. Women dress accordingly, but often if sensitive to a/c they dress with a little more covering for the shoulders. :innocent:


(Gerhard Dr Svrcek Seiler) #534

And I know about quite many real “Sexual” sins - and do not bothzer about not being experienced in the local dresscode.


(Allen Shepherd) #535

I want to address the issue that Dr. Ness brings up about ritual purity. I don’t believe that the prohibitions against homosexual behavior are based on ritual purity codes.

Ritual purity was addressed by Jesus in Mark 7: 18, 19 "Do you not see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean?’ For it does not get into his heart, but into his stomach, and then out of his body. (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods ‘clean’.) (I might add that homosexual behavior does not come from without, but within)

And Peter learned in Acts 10 that he was not to call any man “unclean”. Acts 10:28

But in spite of these two cases, there are three references to the List of illicit sexual behaviors found in Leviticus 18 in the NT

Mark 6:18 where John tells Herod it is not lawful for him to have his brother’s wife (just before the discussion in Mark 7). (Leviticus 18:16)
I Cor 5:1 where a man is condemned for marrying his step mother. (Leviticus 18:8)
I Cor 6:9 where Paul list homosexual behavior as keeping one from the kingdom of heaven. (Leviticus 18:22)

Some consider the injunction against “immorality” in the admonition to the gentiles in Acts 15 to be a reference to the list in Leviticus as well.

So, this issue could not be an issue of impurity, or the Apostle and Mark would not have mentioned sins from the list as sinful. Rather the list in Leviticus was considered a standard of sexual behavior, and is quoted in the NT as such a standard. Those who violated an admonition in the list are condemned.

So it is not matter of Mercy and Sacrifice, but of following the command of God in our sexual behavior as recorded in the NT.

Look, I don’t like going around condemning people for their behavior. It is unpleasant to argue with you and others here, it would be much easier to just give in and say, “Well, sure, lets allow the behavior, it doesn’t hurt anyone. etc.” The problem is, or course, that it undermines the word of God, which is quite clear. No advocacy of homosexual behavior in a single verse, only condemnation. God must have put that there for a reason. Else we would know.

So, I am stubborn on the matter. Not because I hate gays, but because the scripture is so clear, and God does not lie.