Why the Church Has To Stop Saying Sexual Sin Is the Most Important Thing


(Andrew) #596

Well, at the risk of sounding like I know God, I would say he so big, that which ever direction your personal life takes, you are sure to bump into him.


(Tongkam) #597

Sorry, but I have no idea who those people are.


(Bryan Ness) #598

I never said I support close relative marriages, especially brother sister. I would strongly advise against such. My only point was that the Bible does not expressly prohibit such. Sometimes there are good extra-Biblical reasons not to allow something the Bible is silent on. Besides, most people have an instinctive disgust around even the idea of marrying a cousin, let alone a brother or sister.


(Elaine Nelson) #599

I don’t question God’s wisdom. I question what man has written and said about God since it was only men that wrote ABOUT God. No marriage was performed in Eden as there was no reason when there were only two genders–they quickly understood and discovered how to "be fruitful and multiply.

Sabbath was NOT given in Eden; only God “rested” from His creative work; man was just beginning their week. Sabbath was never given as an institution until Sinai. Your statement has no scriptural evidence, only assumptions.


(Elaine Nelson) #600

Close relatives often married as mentioned in the Bible. Cain married a close relative as did his siblings. Abraham married his half-sister; Rebekah married Isaac, a relative; and there were others. This was to maintain the tribal exclusiveness when Israel became a “chosen people.” Keep it all in the family, not mixed with the heathen around them.


(Gerhard Dr Svrcek Seiler) #601

The disgust of homosexual encounter : Ugly ! Please do not only read the Bible about mankinds wishes, desires,
needs.

I had a dear old “aunt” one of the first SDAs in Eatsren Prussia, Koeneignsberg, now Poland. A well balanced woman, very intelligent, in close contact and discussion with hinghly ranked theologians. She was married, happily married. But she once said something of human procreation, why it has to be so ugly, dsigusting - -
(lubrication, of the vagina, ejaculation - - -)

And we have the fairy tale of the frog becoming the king : The princess at first has to overcome shame and then disgust. And immediately the frog became the fulfillment of her desire . The prince.


(Gerhard Dr Svrcek Seiler) #602

but please, should I depict all the sins I met in my life ? - Just tody I checked for “cleavage - sin” at Google. Well, there is some overmephasizing on this matter in some cultures ( No equal results found in other languages !)

Let me suggest a study of Job, the man of probity : See Job 31 : With what out of 19 virtues does he begin ? - But there are 17 others we also shoulf follow !


(Allen Shepherd) #603

I don’t add a prohibition to same sex marriage. They can marry all they want. The Bible only forbids same sex behavior. So, being that most married folk do have sex, the marriage of two gays would same superfluous if they were going to follow the scriptural; mandate and refrain from same sex relations.

You see, the Bible says nothing about orientation, same sex marriage, or other peripherals, if I might call them that (just a convent word, I an not saying they are unimportant). It just flat out forbids same sex sexual activity. So, I am not adding anything to scripture.

But you are going against a clear prohibition. That is adding something.


(Gerhard Dr Svrcek Seiler) #604

Andreas, have an example : We had a woman here in the Union Office, already since the tirties. Daughter of an actrice, out of wedlock. Rather thin, bluestocking. Not a touch of elegance. A top theologian, a top writer and speaker, the help to the Union president in any case you could imagine. A dear person, well balanced.

Once a teen asked her about (her !) sex - oh boy, my ears got red - and she answered : Well, this within her lifestyle of course is a stumbling block, It is an everyday new decision, something she has to get clear for herself with God. Every day.

That was about 1950.


(Elaine Nelson) #605

Many of the “rules” laid down by fundamentalist religions never mentioned sex, a taboo subject. That is why there is such ignorance still demonstrated with the “old guard” in much of the church as this topic has always been buried under the rug as if it didn’t exist. The young people and society today are forcing the church to take a serious look at why such beliefs originated. The Bible was very clear and didn’t “beat around the bush on this subject.” Most of the BIble is clearly “no” to any but marital sex, polygamy is marriage :wink:


(Bryan Ness) #606

You still have not given me a reason why gay sex is wrong, other than the tired old “against nature” argument. As I said, there is no other argument against it, which is why I continue to be baffled as to why we have chosen to prohibit same-sex sexual relations, but don’t follow many of the other prohibitions of a similar sort, such as those dealing with a woman when she is menstruating. And we further pick and choose by not allowing polygamy, which was clearly accepted by the Bible writers.


(Elaine Nelson) #607

It’s a very safe guess that no one on this Spectrum site is observing all the rules given in the Torah. All of us are wearing mixed fabrics; no one prohibits menstruating women from attending church and sitting on the pews; leprosy is a treatable disease and the quarantines there are not observed.

OTOH, the law on unclean foods is strictly to be observed by Adventists. No theologian yet has rationally explained why the unclean food laws are eternal despite Jesus saying that it is not what is unclean that enters the mouth; and the apostles only said meat offered to idols are blood should be avoided. Anyone?


(Bryan Ness) #608

Yeah, that one is a bit enigmatic. It made some sense in the 19th century when one could try and make the argument based on health, as in the unclean animals are less healthy to eat. but with modern nutritional knowledge, there is less and less reason from those kinds of arguments. Of course, forget all the unclean animals, just be vegetarian, which is demonstrably more healthy anyway.

Along with adherence to the clean/unclean animals, we should have gone with the requirement to bleed the animal correctly. Kosher meats are somewhat healthier, so why didn’t we take the full plunge?


(Gerhard Dr Svrcek Seiler) #609

Elaine, this is our -yes -desaster. This is the atmosphere we have grown up - also my “wordly” colleagues of college time decades ago, a middle class tradition maybe of the last three .centuries. About three times I was in the Catholic religion teaching , a boys class of ten years. (!): The only thing we learned was about the devils sewduction with open .- halfopen and closed bras. Then you had to stumble into life, not being informed about pollution, ejaculaton, menstruation - - causing fear, guilt, anxiety when it occurs the first time. We had - on every second Sunday - our SDA Religion class. The concept assumed asexual beings .and some nebolous mentioning of severe sins.

Stefa Zweig : “Die Welt von gestern” - chapter : “Eros matutinus”

At a recent wedding I gave three books of Alberta Mazat as a present. The compulsive “marriage education” by the local pastor before a church wedding simply was nonsense.


(Elaine Nelson) #610

Trying to keep young people ignorant of sex reminds me of the recent cartoon in my local newspaper: “Abstinence is the Only Way” showing three old guys with iron chastity belts securely fastened with locks!

If those who wish no teen pregnancies and no abortions, the answer is in chastity belts for the men! Perfect answer!


(Gerhard Dr Svrcek Seiler) #611

Please why did nobody ask about SKPs education - study - character - - - before ? Even a rape - a date rape - misunderstanding that SHE at a point gets reluctabt, tries to say “NO !” - and I woul apply for the one without sin throwing the first stone. But the allegedly serial rapist ? A severe personality disorder ? - - and nobody questioned his petrsonality after the (first ?) book “Receivinbg the Word” - Not because of the theses he proclaimed, but about the harsh tone ?


(Elaine Nelson) #612

But, he had such a large following in certain parts of the world. :wink:


(Quacinda Jodyne Topkok) #613

Yes… it seems many of us have turned ‘sexual sin’ into a god when our Living God should have that place inside our heads. If we have given more time and thought and action to this topic it shins brighter then our Creator within us, and the fuke of that fire is coming from the wrong source.

We label and title everything. EVERYTHING. We set ourselves up a judge and jury and impose our individual belief onto others. (On the other extreme… we see ourselves as Victim, and play the role of victim. But that is another story). Better questions we might ask ourselves are… Who am I? What is love/Who is God? [And] What is real? If we can answer these questions we can then let our light shine (God’s light of truth). We can then realize that others are on a path to better their own lives in the best way they know how. And if we come along side them with potty and love, compassion and understanding, we may developed a trust between us that all we want is for good will and our light shows them we have a GOOD thing; and they may be led to desire that for themselves. Unity is the key.


(Website Editor) closed #614