Respectful and illuminating. Not an easy path. Very well reported presentation, Chuck.
I challenge Ted Wilson or anyone else to point to any publication by the GSI that offers compelling evidence for either of these phenomena.
Ted is telling the audience what they want to hear - not the truth, and not what they need to hear.
But as a good religion-politician…he knows that.
God does not need us to finish HIS work! It benefits us and others to be God’s helpers but HE is quite capable of getting the word out if He wants no matter how lame we might be.
In the 4 years to the end of 2014 the world church grew by 9.2 percent. In the 4 years prior to that it grew by 12 percent.
Ted Wilson plays fast and loose with the truth. Just as he did with the New York campaign. He is first and foremost, a politician.
But as a good politician the truth is what he prefers it to be, not what is. Politicians say what people want to hear, truth be denied.
Well, I think it’s common knowledge that growth in the developed world is slow compared to growth in the developing world. I live in the US, and our small conference has slow growth, but it is an aging membership. I remains to be seen if the youth will take up the mantle of leadership when us old fogies leave the field. I know some who are likely to, but we need more, of course. However, this will not be accomplished by compromising on truth or watering down our message. Our message is more relevant today than ever, in spite of the naysayers and skeptics.
I should have read the comments, not just the article, before posting my own. I quoted most of the comment you did, from the article, with my own observation that “that is rather telling…”. Great minds think alike
I wonder if he’s heard the word “tautology”, or understands what it means?
You make such a good point. AND if you think about it, God is playing very cruel game since the SDA Church will NEVER catch up to the population growth. How very cruel God must be to base His return on our being prepared or our inability to effectively spread the gospel.
It’s almost like circular thinking.
I am deeply moved and impressed with what Elder Wilson said today during this interview: http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/story2899-wilson-interview-gcsession2015.
I have mused over this interesting conundrum: 2 Peter 3:8 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise (to return)… He is patient with you not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. (the perish here refers to eternal death). And, vs 12 …as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.
So, is God delaying so more have a chance, and we are working against him by not doing all we can??
I suspect there a bit of both with our weaknesses keeping God from doing what he wants, but prolonging time so more get in. We will bear some responsibility. How can that not be so? But it is not all ours, and God has done what he has done for his own purposes. As Lincoln noted, the civil war might have been not just to free the slaves, but to punish the North and South both, one for allowing it and the other for doing the enslaving. Our lack of will to preach God’s message hurts the world. But God may use it to get more into the kingdom. We will not be able to boast at the second coming but humbly confess our weaknesses and praise God for his great mercy.
But not an American-style election… We usually have more than one candidate. You probably know where in the world they have always only one candidate…
If there is only one candidate, why do they campaign?
If the “one candidate” is appointed by a committee, why do those delegates vote? Voting on what? The façade is indeed very impressive…
This is just all crazy.
I am positive that Birder @blc, aka Pici, lives in Egypt. Because he is in the Nile almost every day!!!..
Allen, the text is indeed a conundrum. In my own reflections on the subject, I have come to believe it is one of those texts best comprehended in its context of time. Jesus’ disciples seem clearly to have believed Jesus was coming back in their day. So Peters words make sense as an explanation for the delay in the context of his life time. His words don’t make sense to me some 2,000 years later as an explanation in our context.
Claiming relevance with no evidence in support has little meaning. It it was truly relevant the response would demonstrate that. But, as you admit, it all remains to be seen, and the proof must be in the pudding, not words.
Lets be Honest. Ted is irrelevant in the local church.
[quote=“ajshep, post:34, topic:8687”]
I suspect there a bit of both with our weaknesses keeping God from doing what he wants, but prolonging time so more get in. We will bear some responsibility.
[/quote]Do you think that Jesus hasn’t come because of something Adventist’s haven’t done? Is this what you are saying here?
I don’t think that is all of it, but Ellen said there was some weaknesses on the part of the church that had prevented him from coming sooner. And I might add that the delay is not just from what Adventists have or have not done, but the whole of Christianity. She was pretty discerning. So, sure we had a part to play.
But then again, God delays because he desires to save as many as possible, or may use the delay not of his devising to save more.
Who is to blame for the carnage of the twentieth century? Adventists? God? American isolationism? Hitler? Stalin? Mao etc? I think God gives men opportunity to do well, and many choose to do ill. He allows us to reap what we sow, and it can be utterly horrible. Small decisions can have huge repercussions.
For instance, the Germans elected Hitler in a free election, and were really happy with how he brought the nation out of depression and restored its standing in the world. And I don’t blame them for feeling that way. And the Allies from WW1 sort of pushed the Germans into his arms in a way. So who was to blame? Well, there was plenty to go around, and it is a bit of all of these things.
Same with the delay of Christ’s coming.